Miami Passenger Shot by Air Marshals... was it the right thing to do?

[N8]

So, was did the Air Marshal do the right thing at the time given the info he had to go from? Or should he be fired and brought up on charges?


Miami Passenger Shot by Air Marshals
By JOHN PAIN, Associated Press Writer

MIAMI - Shortly after boarding an Orlando-bound plane, passengers say, they saw a man bolt from his seat and run down the aisle, with his screaming wife and man in a Hawaiian shirt behind.

"My husband! My husband!" one passenger said she heard the wife cry.

The chase ended moments later Wednesday in a Miami International Airport jetway, when authorities say Rigoberto Alpizar appeared to reach for his bag. He was shot to death by the man in the Hawaiian shirt and a second pursuer, both undercover air marshals.

Before he ran off the plane he "uttered threatening words that included a sentence to the effect that he had a bomb," said James E. Bauer, agent in charge of the Federal Air Marshal Service field office in Miami.

No bomb was found, and federal officials later concluded there was no link to terrorism. Witnesses said his wife, Anne, frantically tried to explain he was bipolar, a mental illness also known as manic-depression, and was off his medication.

"She said it was her fault, that he was bipolar," said Mike Beshears, a Flight 924 passenger who works for a vacation club in Orlando. "He was sick and she had convinced him to get on the plane."

It was the first time since the Sept. 11 attacks that an air marshal discharged a firearm at a passenger or suspect, Homeland Security Department spokesman Brian Doyle said.

Dave Adams, a spokesman for the air marshals, confirmed Thursday there were two marshals on the flight and said both fired at Alpizar.

"They felt their life was threatened," he told ABC's "Good Morning America." "This was a textbook scenario and they acted instinctively based on the training."

The Bush administration hired thousands of additional air marshals after Sept. 11, when the nation had only 33. The exact number now is classified. Marshals fly undercover, and which planes they're on is a closely guarded secret.

Officials declined to say how many times Alpizar was shot, but passengers reported hearing between four to six shots. Authorities did not confirm he suffered from a mental illness.

"The man sitting next to me got on the floor," said passenger Olga Echeverria, of Guatemala. "I threw myself on the floor to pray for God's mercy on us."

Alpizar, who worked in the paint department of a home supply store, was returning from a missionary trip, according to a neighbor who was watching his ranch-style house in the Orlando suburb of Maitland. He had arrived in Miami on a flight from Ecuador earlier Wednesday, said Rick Thomas, the airport's federal security director.

"We're all still in shock," said his sister-in-law, Kelley Buechner, in a telephone interview from her home in Milwaukee. "We're just speechless."

Investigators closed the concourse at the airport for half an hour and spread passengers' bags on the tarmac. Dogs sniffed them for explosives, and bomb squad members blew up at least two bags. No bombs were found.

The remaining passengers were kept on the plane for an hour, then police told them to leave with their hands behind their backs, said Lucy Argote, 15, of Codazi, Colombia. They had to leave their possessions behind.

Argote said Alpizar got up from his seat and ran toward the plane's door, with his wife yelling in Spanish.

"Officers told him to stop and he said no," the teen said. "He was running like a crazy man."

Another passenger, Mary Gardner, told WTVJ-TV in Miami that she also heard his wife call after him as he ran down the aisle.

"He was frantic, his arms flailing in the air," she said. She said a woman followed, shouting, "My husband! My husband!"

The Alpizars had been married for about two decades and met when Anne was an exchange student in Costa Rica, family members said. Rigoberto became a naturalized U.S. citizen.

The description of Alpizar by authorities and others stunned his friends and neighbors in central Florida.

"This whole neighborhood is shocked," said Alex McLeod, 16, who lives three houses from the Alpizars. "Totally uncharacteristic of the guy."

Charles Baez, manager of the MAB Paints store in Orlando where Alpizar used to work, described him as a health enthusiast who was always patient with customers.

"He was a quiet, reserved gentleman," Baez said Thursday. "It's very bizarre to me that he would do anything like that."

[LordOpie]

wasn't this posted a number of times already or am I losing my mind, again?

[MMike]

Tell us N8. Was it?

[BIGHIT756]

no meds or not, if you go running down the isle of a god damn plane like a crazy man, dont you think someone's gonna think something? i think the marshall was in the right. better to be safe than sorry.

[N8]

I think the marshal was justified in shooting first and asking questions later based on the circumstances.

[Westy]

Personally I think air marshals need to shoot more people on airplanes: loud talkers, farters, seat kickers, people who stink up the lavatories and people who hold everyone up getting off the plane by deciding they need to organize their lives at that very point in time.

[johnbryanpeters]

None of us were there. I presume there will be a review or inquiry to analyze whether the action was justified. The review may or may not come to the right conclusions. We may or may not be honestly informed of the results.

Translation: Who knows?

[Echo]

I forsee that there will be a huge partisan debate about whether the shooting was justified or not, nothing will get solved and we will never really know what happened. I love this country's political system.

[N8]

I don't know seems pretty basic to me:

Guy said he had a bomb on an airplane (post 9-11).

Guy would not listen to law enforcement to stop threatening and submit to a search.

Guy was shot.

End of story.

[LordOpie]

I'm confused...

After the Marshall shot and killed the guy, how come he didn't unwrap the banner, "Mission Accomplished", like they're supplied and trained to do afterwards?

[N8]

I'm confused...

After the Marshall shot and killed the guy, how come he didn't unwrap the banner, "Mission Accomplished", like they're supplied and trained to do afterwards?


Because he forgot?

[reflux]

I forsee that there will be a huge partisan debate about whether the shooting was justified or not, nothing will get solved and we will never really know what happened. I love this country's political system.
You forgot the part about where the head of the investigation will the shooter himself. After all, he (she?) was there and is the right person to head an independent review.

[reflux]

Uhh, it's my understanding that he was off the plane, had run away from the plane while being pursued by several armed men, when he finally stopped and reached for the bag. At that point, they then shot him.

I agree with JBP.

[LordOpie]

seriously tho... how did they know he didn't have a "dead-man's switch" thingy?

[Changleen]

Uh, I think I agree with N8 on this one. Shouting you have a bomb on a plane and refusing to stop for an armed American authority figure is pretty much the same as jumping in front of a large speeding truck.

[blt2ride]

It's hard to say, since none of us were aboard this plane. However, saying you have a bomb and running wild on an airplane is not something a federal marshal is going to take lightly. On the other hand, I suppose it could be debated that a "non-lethal" defense could have been used.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but when you have to make a life or death choice in the matter of seconds, it's very difficult. I'm feel pretty confident that the marshal followed the proper procedures, and felt that he had to save the lives of the other passengers. I'm sure he DID NOT know that this was a mentally ill man, who hasn't been taking his medication. It's really a very sad and tragic story...

[amydalayna]

I haven't made my mind up about whether or not I believe the marshal did the right thing.
The thing that bothered me is watching the news yesterday, a womam at the airport was interviewed and said she was happy because justice was done?
What justice is there killing someone who isn't mentally all there?

[Reactor]

If things are as represented, it's hard to fault the air marshal. But he had to wonder, why is the guy yelling bomb running off the plane, instead of on?

[narlus]

The thing that bothered me is watching the news yesterday, a womam at the airport was interviewed and said she was happy because justice was done?
What justice is there killing someone who isn't mentally all there?

for the same reason george bush executed mentally handicapped peopel while governor of TX. it's fun!

[narlus]

If things are as represented, it's hard to fault the air marshal. But he had to wonder, why is the guy yelling bomb running off the plane, instead of on?

BREAKING NEWS!!!! NEW VIDEO REVEALED!!!

http://stuff.ubersite.com/1082386421666221578/1/1.gif

[Changleen]

I haven't made my mind up about whether or not I believe the marshal did the right thing.
The thing that bothered me is watching the news yesterday, a womam at the airport was interviewed and said she was happy because justice was done?
What justice is there killing someone who isn't mentally all there?None. This certainly wasn't justice, it was a summary execution. However it was fairly predictable based on what we can read in the reports.

I have to add though, that shooting him once he was off the plane may have been a little heavy handed. As someone else said, you'd have to be pretty confident he didn't have a dead man's trigger. It'd be fairly irresponsible otherwise. I can just see the movie scene - Armed agent chases shouting lunatic off plane, he's running away across the tarmac - "Stop or I'll shoot" - Guy continues to run - Camera swaps to show crazy guy running towards us. We see the Marshall and the plane in the background, the Marshall levels his gun and fires two rounds. A pained expression crosses the fugitive's face as he almost reaches the camera. He falls, clearing our view of the Marshall and the plane. A second later - KaTHOOOOOM - The plane disintegrates into a massive orange fireball, throwing the Marshall to the floor. Ooopppps.

[LordOpie]

I'd see that movie, especially if there were snakes on the plane.

[Silver]

for the same reason george bush executed mentally handicapped peopel while governor of TX. it's fun!

"Seatbelt for my arm...seatbelt for my leg...seatbelt for my heaaaad!"

(I never get tired of that one.)

[amydalayna]

for the same reason george bush executed mentally handicapped peopel while governor of TX. it's fun!

i think it's david cross who says the same thing. it just makes the world a better place. every time a mentally handicapped person is executed an angel gets its wings!

[amydalayna]

"Seatbelt for my arm...seatbelt for my leg...seatbelt for my heaaaad!"

(I never get tired of that one.)

"wait! this isn't a ride!"

[narlus]

i think it's david cross who says the same thing. it just makes the world a better place. every time a mentally handicapped person is executed an angel gets its wings!

that was the one. did you see the david cross thing ripping the 'git t done' guy? some comedian called larry the cable guy? i never heard of the guy, but the reaming DC gives him is worth reading.

http://www.bobanddavid.com/david.asp?artId=183

[Silver]

that was the one. did you see the david cross thing ripping the 'git t done' guy? some comedian called larry the cable guy? i never heard of the guy, but the reaming DC gives him is worth reading.

http://www.bobanddavid.com/david.asp?artId=183

That was good, thanks.

[fluff]

Uhh, it's my understanding that he was off the plane, had run away from the plane while being pursued by several armed men, when he finally stopped and reached for the bag. At that point, they then shot him.

I agree with JBP.

That's the London Underground scenario...

[Discostu]

I think its a really terrible situation for all parties involved. There is no 'justice' with something like this. Based on the information I have from the news reports, I would say the Air Marshal was justified. Its not a happy ending for anyone, but thats the way it goes.

[riverside73]

Personally I think air marshals need to shoot more people on airplanes: loud talkers, farters, seat kickers, people who stink up the lavatories and people who hold everyone up getting off the plane by deciding they need to organize their lives at that very point in time.



YYEEEESSSSSSSSS!!!!! Except for the farters. I have been known to get gassy on flights and would not want to be shot for it.
:blah:

[reflux]

Entirely OT: I met this cute girl at a coffee shop about a year ago. We sat down and talked for a few minutes, she seemed cool enough so I made sure we saw each again. We get together for another cup of coffee a few days later. At this point, after we've known each other for no more than 2 or 3 hours, she laid it on me that she was buhlemic(sp?) during high school, was slightly anorexic at the time, and had a bipolar disorder that she didn't like taking medication for. Check please. Umm, talk about laying too much on a guy for a first date. She was funny, smart as hell, but just crazy enough to scare a guy off.

[LordOpie]

She was... just crazy enough to get a guy off.
there ya go.

[Silver]

Entirely OT: I met this cute girl at a coffee shop about a year ago. We sat down and talked for a few minutes, she seemed cool enough so I made sure we saw each again. We get together for another cup of coffee a few days later. At this point, after we've known each other for no more than 2 or 3 hours, she laid it on me that she was buhlemic(sp?) during high school, was slightly anorexic at the time, and had a bipolar disorder that she didn't like taking medication for. Check please. Umm, talk about laying too much on a guy for a first date. She was funny, smart as hell, but just crazy enough to scare a guy off.

You passed up mindblowing sex. Of course, you also avoided a potential Phil Hartman situation, but the chances of that aren't that high, y'know?

[reflux]

there ya go.
I see the err of my ways, but why couldn't you have shown me the light last year?

[reflux]

You passed up mindblowing sex. Of course, you also avoided a potential Phil Hartman situation, but the chances of that aren't that high, y'know?
I passed up a once-in-a-lifetime experience, but I had good reason. I used my real name and place of business, so I would've had big problems if I didn't stay to cuddle for the requisite 90 minutes post coitus (the bare minimum at her suggestion).

[JRogers]

Anyway, back to the topic. I feel bad for this guy. Sure, I probably would have shot him....but it seems that he was clearly not right. He was probably so out of his gourd that he didn't even know what he was doing.

[gschuette]

What justice is there killing someone who isn't mentally all there?


You are right. They should have conducted a mental competency test as he ran away shouting he had a bomb.:rolleyes:

[fluff]

I passed up a once-in-a-lifetime experience, but I had good reason. I used my real name and place of business, so I would've had big problems if I didn't stay to cuddle for the requisite 90 minutes post coitus (the bare minimum at her suggestion).
Oh there's nothing like lying awake at night wondering if the psychochick you just pissed off is gonna plunge a knife into your chest.

You missed out big-time, really.

[Old Man G Funk]

Uh, I think I agree with N8 on this one.
I hope you took a shower.

[ummbikes]

It is tragic that the guy had to die, BUT, c'mon what would have happened if he did have a bomb and they didn't try and stop using every bit of force they were capable of?

[Old Man G Funk]

It is tragic that the guy had to die, BUT, c'mon what would have happened if he did have a bomb and they didn't try and stop using every bit of force they were capable of?
Agreed. We don't know all the details yet, but the preliminary details seem to suggest (to me at least) that the air marshalls acted correctly.

[LordOpie]

but again, what if he had a dead-mans switch?

[Silver]

but again, what if he had a dead-mans switch?

That would have been fine.

Now, a dead man's switch and a bomb would have been trouble...

[reflux]

but again, what if he had a dead-mans switch?
And if my Aunt had a penis should would have been my Uncle.


In the heat of the moment, perhaps the Air Marshalls didn't have the time to run through all of the options available to them. Police officers can also attest to this, that in high-pressure situations your actions are determined by your training and split-second decisions. Without having seen the video, it seems to me that their AM acted according to the books.

[LordOpie]

...your actions are determined by your training...
That's just my point. They're trained to kill. But is that the best approach?

[Echo]

that was the one. did you see the david cross thing ripping the 'git t done' guy? some comedian called larry the cable guy? i never heard of the guy, but the reaming DC gives him is worth reading.

http://www.bobanddavid.com/david.asp?artId=183
Think-Of-Something-To-Do-And-See-That-Task-To-Completion!!!!!

:D

[valve bouncer]

I remember when the guy was shot in the London underground and it was found that the cops just straight out lied to justify their action. I wonder if this case wil turn out similar.

[PonySoldier]

I remember when the guy was shot in the London underground and it was found that the cops just straight out lied to justify their action. I wonder if this case wil turn out similar.


Charges may yet be filed... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4513482.stm

[valve bouncer]

Charges may yet be filed... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4513482.stm
Someone has to pay for that snafu. Yay culture of fear.:rolleyes:

[Qman]

I think his wife was trying to kill him....

"oh honey, it's ok to put your meds in the checked baggage. It's a short flight."......... :thumb:

blame her.

[fluff]

Someone has to pay for that snafu. Yay culture of fear.:rolleyes:

Oh come one, that'll be just one more whitewash from the office of Tony Blair...

[manimal]

Uh, I think I agree with N8 on this one. Shouting you have a bomb on a plane and refusing to stop for an armed American authority figure is pretty much the same as jumping in front of a large speeding truck.

wow. we agree on something.

the whole, "reaching into the bag" part is what got him. when you have a law enforcement officer pointing a gun at you screaming "stop" combined with something like "let me see your hands" and you reach into a bag...especially after you claimed you had a bomb....uh...i call it stupid tax and sucks for you if your body can't handle another orifice made by a fast moving metal projectile.

[manimal]

That's just my point. They're trained to kill. But is that the best approach?


physiological studies say yes. would you want to do a physical takedown of someone that may blow up?

i loved the guest that katy couric had on the show the day after. she tried the usual liberal ignorant statement of, "why didn't he just shoot him in the leg...." the former air marshal's comment was something like this.., "mam, pinpoint shooting in a high stress environment is nearly impossible. we train to shoot center mass of the body to "stop the threat".
katy: well, how many shots does that take?

air marshall: "as many as it takes to "stop the threat"

i challenge anyone to sprint for ...say..um...1/8th mile knowing that the person in front of you may explode at any second and then try to shoot him in the knee as he's running away. sorry, not even supercop could do that.

the utter ignorance of real-life situations in the media disgusts me.

[Reactor]

physiological studies say yes. would you want to do a physical takedown of someone that may blow up?

i loved the guest that katy couric had on the show the day after. she tried the usual liberal ignorant statement of, "why didn't he just shoot him in the leg...." the former air marshal's comment was something like this.., "mam, pinpoint shooting in a high stress environment is nearly impossible. we train to shoot center mass of the body to "stop the threat".
katy: well, how many shots does that take?

air marshall: "as many as it takes to "stop the threat"

i challenge anyone to sprint for ...say..um...1/8th mile knowing that the person in front of you may explode at any second and then try to shoot him in the knee as he's running away. sorry, not even supercop could do that.

the utter ignorance of real-life situations in the media disgusts me.

That's why I'm not faulting the air marshals involved. It's a stress situation with minimal time to think. We can deconstruct it all we want with days/weeks/months to think about it , but with everything I've heard, even from the wife, there seems to be reasonable cause to shoot.

I saw a study, about 20 years ago, and most people, even with moderate training can only hit a moving man sized target at 10 feet half the time. After running and in a high stress situation, it would be even less. I doubt he was cooperating by standing perfectly still. It's an unfortunate incident.

[The Amish]

i call it stupid tax and sucks for you .


I'd vote for you

[Changleen]

I'd vote for youThey let you vote? Sheesh.

[LordOpie]

They let you vote? Sheesh.
Hush you.

With him around, you actually look smart.




:D

[The Amish]

They let you vote? Sheesh.


and then they give me a sticker. Its a good day all around

[Changleen]

Hush you.

With him around, you actually look smart.




:DI'm smater than jew.

[Silver]

Has there been anyone else besides the air marshall who heard him say he had a bomb?

I didn't know those guys had bionic hearing...

[LordOpie]

I didn't know those guys had bionic hearing...
You can always tell when they move their hair away from their ear.


The victim probably didn't say he had a bomb. The marshall probably made it up cuz some guy freaked out and he shot him out of a panic response.

[The Amish]

Has there been anyone else besides the air marshall who heard him say he had a bomb?

Who cares! Anyone dumb enough to go running around an aeroplane after 9/11 deserves to get shot. Its really that simple.

Blame the police. The battle cry of of the true liberal moron. RODNEY KING! RODNEY KING!

LOSER

[Silver]

Who cares! Anyone dumb enough to go running around an aeroplane after 9/11 deserves to get shot. Its really that simple.

Blame the police. The battle cry of of the true liberal moron. RODNEY KING! RODNEY KING!

LOSER

Well, he was a spic, wasn't he? No harm done, I guess.

[LordOpie]

If he was Arab instead of spic, we'd be having a party and hero celebration.

[Silver]

If he was Arab instead of spic, we'd be having a party and hero celebration.

I believe the preferred nomenclature is raghead. You use the word "Arab" and capitalize it like a proper noun, and you almost make those sand niggers sound like human beings...

[LordOpie]

sorry, my bad.

[Silver]

sorry, my bad.

That's ok. I understand you and your people are busy running the world, and assaulting Christmas with all your Jewishness. You can't be expected to keep on top of everything at this time of year.

[LordOpie]

Ok, we need to get something absolutely clear about this...

I understand you and your people are busy running the world...

I'm really getting tired of people saying crap like that. I'm not running jack-sh!t.

If anyone knows the jews in-charge, well, hook a brother up.

[Reactor]

Ok, we need to get something absolutely clear about this...



I'm really getting tired of people saying crap like that. I'm not running jack-sh!t.

If anyone knows the jews in-charge, well, hook a brother up.

I thought every conspiracy theory has several elements either {aliens or Jews or the NSA} are using a {secret government agency or the internet or a super computer} to control the {stock market or press or world economy or democratic party or world energy supply}

[Changleen]

They are. Opie's just really good at flat out denials.

[Silver]

They are. Opie's just really good at flat out denials.

:stupid:

Like a member of the cabal (even a junior semen scrubber like Opie) would admit to being a member. Ha!

[LordOpie]

"semen scrubber" ?

:mad:

Phuck you!

We prefer jizz-mopper you ass-hat.

[bigdrop05]

Yes they were justified no problem from the info in that article.
I would have capped him too !

[valve bouncer]

Yes they were justified no problem from the info in that article.
I would have capped him too !
You would have shot your dick off moron.

[Changleen]

:p lol

[bigdrop05]

You would have shot your dick off moron.
No dork, i shoot on a regular basis & just bought another 200 rounds today !
I shoot with an air marshal & can shoot as good as him. So no i would not shoot my dick off.
You think you are the expert on situations eh! People are ALWAYS the experts AFTER the fact huh valve bouncer....
I bet you would just use your "mind control" on the bi-polar running man & go unarmed on the flights because -you the almighty valve bouncer !

[valve bouncer]

No dork, i shoot on a regular basis & just bought another 200 rounds today !
I shoot with an air marshal & can shoot as good as him. So no i would not shoot my dick off.
You think you are the expert on situations eh! People are ALWAYS the experts AFTER the fact huh valve bouncer....
I bet you would just use your "mind control" on the bi-polar running man & go unarmed on the flights because -you the almighty valve bouncer !
I stand corrected...you probably would have shot your balls off as well. BTW the original message you posted where you challenged me to a no holds barred death cage match- that was funny, you shouldn't have changed it.
Just for posterity here is what he wrote. It's great stuff
you god dam co ck sucker. If I lived in Japan, i would challenge you to a death match.No i shoot on a regular basis & just bought 200 rounds today you fark! You dumb sushi eating ass lick Type in some more of your dildo pounding crap .. ha ha LOL
stupid farking internet weasels
I can't post anything without toal crapping sarcasm.
You pussy!
I will spectate Sugar mtn National. Why don't you fly your ass over here & we can do a UFC match out in the field ..
I thought that was too good to go to waste.

[MikeD]

None. This certainly wasn't justice, it was a summary execution. However it was fairly predictable based on what we can read in the reports.

It was neither justice nor summary execution. It was the proper response of the law enforcement officers responding to the situation. They were very clearly operating within the restrictions of the 4th Amendment (use of force is governed by the provisions against unreasonable seizure) as interpreted by the Supreme Court in Graham and Garner, the cases which establish current use-of-force doctrine.

It's unfortunate that the man had to die, but his actions clearly presented the possiblity of a threat to the passengers, crew, and airport bystanders, as well as the Marshals themselves.

By reaching into the bag, despite the officers' presence and verbal warnings (which aren't necessary, but should be given if possible) he's presented the possibility that there may be a weapon of some sort in there. That mere possibility, combined with his refusal to submit to the officers' authority, justifies the use of deadly force under US federal law and the Air Marshal Service's own policies (which can be more restrictive than the constitution).

There's no basis for a Bivens lawsuit for use of excessive force or any sort of criminal liability for the Marshals involved.

Then again, I'm sure you're not arguing that the shooting was illegal... just that it should be. Personally, I'm damned glad it's permissible and the officers don't have to do any mental legal wrangling when presented with potential threats.

I have to add though, that shooting him once he was off the plane may have been a little heavy handed. As someone else said, you'd have to be pretty confident he didn't have a dead man's trigger. It'd be fairly irresponsible otherwise. I can just see the movie scene -...The plane disintegrates into a massive orange fireball, throwing the Marshall to the floor. Ooopppps.

First, the location of the shooting is irrelevant. A bomb (or weapon, or banana) is a bomb in a jetway or in an airport or on a plane.

Second, the Marshals have to make a split-second decision, and taking the guy down is the best of a bunch of ****ty options. He may have a dead-man switch...or he may have a command-detonated bomb or he may have a gun, knife, or teddy bear in there. Best to take the most aggressive option to end the situation as quickly as possible. Again, the Supreme Court has validated this, and specifically stated that the actions of law enforcement personnel are to be held to a standard of 'objective reasonableness...' That is, their decisions are to be evaluated on the facts known to the officers involved at the time of their actions, with due consideration to the split-second decisionmaking that's often imposed upon them. The Marshals will be required to articulate what they thought and why they thought it, and they've got very clear reasons from the information in the article N8 posted.

The idea of 'knowing' what kind of device he was carrying exceeds this standard. There is no way to know it until the situation is over, and the Marshals have the obligation to end the situation as quickly as possible to protect *public* safety, not to protect someone who's presented himself as a possible threat to others.

If he hadn't reached into the bag, they'd have no legal basis to shoot. That action instantly elevated the situation to the level of deadly force.

What's amazed me is the Fox News and conservative response to this incident...they immediately began bashing phantom 'liberals,' a fictious crowd of outraged pinkos who were trashing the American hero Air Marshals. But there has been, to my knowledge, little to no criticism at all (at least until I read this thread) of the Marshal's actions. They acted reasonably, and the response to their actions has been largely reasonable as well from all sides.

MD

[Silver]

Well, if no one else on the plane heard the guy said that he had a bomb, how do you know that he actually reached into the bag on the jetway?

If he actually made a bomb threat, then the Air Marshals acted just fine, IMHO. However, I'd like to hear that bomb threat corraborated by someone who wasn't pointing a gun at the guy.

[Westy]

The guy was tryin to bring snakes, ON A PLANE!

[BurlyShirley]

Holy crap. That post by BigDrop05 to VB is the funniest thing i have ever seen.

[valve bouncer]

Holy crap. That post by BigDrop05 to VB is the funniest thing i have ever seen.
He quickly deleted it but I saved it as it was too good to lose.:rofl:

[BurlyShirley]

He quickly deleted it but I saved it as it was too good to lose.:rofl:
I actually met they guy once. Seemed pretty normal. No death match references or anything.

[valve bouncer]

I actually met they guy once. Seemed pretty normal. No death match references or anything.
I seem to have that effect on people.:D :D

[DirtyDog]

He quickly deleted it but I saved it as it was too good to lose.:rofl:

Let's see it chief.

[chicodude]

you god dam co ck sucker. If I lived in Japan, i would challenge you to a death match.No i shoot on a regular basis & just bought 200 rounds today you fark! You dumb sushi eating ass lick Type in some more of your dildo pounding crap .. ha ha LOL
stupid farking internet weasels
I can't post anything without toal crapping sarcasm.
You pussy!
I will spectate Sugar mtn National. Why don't you fly your ass over here & we can do a UFC match out in the field

Here.

[DirtyDog]

Here.

What's toal crapping? :confused:

[Secret Squirrel]

What's toal crapping? :confused:
It's just this side of "festival of crapping"...