John Kerry Calls American Troops Terrorists

[N8]

This is Face the Nation last Sunday:

Bob Schieffer says, "Democrat Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, he takes a very different view, Senator Kerry. He says basically that we should stay the course, because he says real progress is being made. He says, 'This is a war between 27 million Iraqis who want freedom and 10,000 terrorists.' He says we're in a watershed transformation. What about that?"

JOHN KERRY: I don't agree with that. But I think what we need to do is recognize what we all agree on, which is, you've got to begin to set benchmarks for accomplishment; you've got to begin to transfer authority to the Iraqis, and there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the -- of -- of -- of -- historical customs, religious customs, whether you like it or not. Iraqis should be doing that. And after all of these two and a half years, with all --

[Westy]

That is a shame. He should have called Jr a Terrorrrirrisst.

[LordOpie]

so, no comment on this or anything you've been posting about?

A real shame. That economy thread gave us false hope that you were actually going to participate in the discussions.

[DRB]

so, no comment on this or anything you've been posting about?

A real shame. That economy thread gave us false hope that you were actually going to participate in the discussions.

He's mad at me for being mean to him. I think that he is getting N8 and MizN8 egos confused.

[Reactor]

Typical distortion.

But I have to ask. Being awakened by armed, masked men who break down your door, throw your parents to the ground and burst into your house and wave guns around is what ..... comforting? spreading democracy? Prostletizing? In the US we call it a Home Invasion.

Of course in the US it would be also be hard to find a find a group of 100,000 people, like us soldiers, who have suffered 2,136+ deaths, 20,748+ injuries (half of which are permanently disabling), and 30,000 cases of sever mental illness.

[Ciaran]

This is Face the Nation last Sunday:


JOHN KERRY: I don't agree with that. But I think what we need to do is recognize what we all agree on, which is, you've got to begin to set benchmarks for accomplishment; you've got to begin to transfer authority to the Iraqis, and there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the -- of -- of -- of -- historical customs, religious customs, whether you like it or not. Iraqis should be doing that. And after all of these two and a half years, with all --
Sorry N8, that is not calling someone a terrorist (especially within the definition of terrorism/terrorist that you are using). You know, sometimes you really are a moron. Most times I think that you are pretty harmless, but then I remember that you also have the right to vote. It's sad, really.

[Discostu]

Terrorize- To fill or overpower with terror
Terror- Intense, overpowering fear

Terrorist-One that engages in acts or an act of terrorism.
Terrorism-The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Let us know if you need any help with the big words.

[LordOpie]

you guys know he's trolling... therefore, you're bigger idiots than you think he is.

[Westy]

you guys know he's trolling... therefore, you're bigger idiots than you think he is.

N8, c'mon. Hes is much more interested in starting lively debate than merely bunching panties.

[The Amish]

you guys know he's trolling... therefore, you're bigger idiots than you think he is.


Aah the trolling acusation. The battle cry of the jack ass with far to many post's. I cunt understand why you keep speaking

[Silver]

But I have to ask. Being awakened by armed, masked men who break down your door, throw your parents to the ground and burst into your house and wave guns around is what ..... comforting? spreading democracy? Prostletizing? In the US we call it a Home Invasion.



Or the War on Drugs. The ragheads in question are probably a bunch of potheads too, they deserve what they get.

[LordOpie]

N8, c'mon. Hes is much more interested in starting lively debate than merely bunching panties.
I'm hoping that enough people will ignore him so he'll either stop posting or (more hopefully) start actually commenting on a more regular basis. I'm not sure if y'all know this, but he's a pretty smart guy with good opinions... even if I disagree with 'em.

Come on nate, you must be getting bored with this routine, yeah?

[LordOpie]

Aah the trolling acusation. The battle cry of the jack ass with far to many post's. I cunt understand why you keep speaking
*yawn*

[Westy]

[snip]I cunt.

You speak the truth.:p

[N8]

I'm hoping that enough people will ignore him so he'll either stop posting or (more hopefully) start actually commenting on a more regular basis. I'm not sure if y'all know this, but he's a pretty smart guy with good opinions... even if I disagree with 'em.

Come on nate, you must be getting bored with this routine, yeah?


Oh stop it! I am merely a trollbot...

:love:

[Changleen]

Aah the trolling acusation. The battle cry of the jack ass with far to many post's. I cunt understand why you keep speakingSincerely, F@ck off, you wanker.

[The Amish]

no no no, I just cant do that. You see personaly i could give a sh$t about any of this stuff, but when I realised there was a forum with about a dozen so called bikers who liked to blow smoke up each others a##'s about how smart they were, and how simple it would be to solve all the worlds problems if we would only listen to them, I felt it my civic duty as a red blooded american to take a moment out of every day and write something just to piss em off. C-ya tommorow!

PEACE

[narlus]

so are we lumped in as 'so-called' bikers because we don't cut illegal trails and build crap on land we don't own?

[Changleen]

so are we lumped in as 'so-called' bikers because we don't cut illegal trails and build crap on land we don't own?No, It's because he's a dick who hasn't the first clue what he's talking about.

[valve bouncer]

I cunt understand
1 point to the Amish:oink:

[fluff]

1 point to the Amish:oink:
Yeah, but he does have a built-in advantage. Being a cuntry boy an all.

[Old Man G Funk]

but when I realised there was a forum with about a dozen so called bikers who liked to blow smoke up each others a##'s about how smart they were
Biking and intelligence might be mutually exclusive in your case, but it doesn't necessarily apply in all cases. I suggest you not transfer your personal liabilities on the rest of us.

[DRB]

I have no problem with what Kerry said. It points to the intelligence of the current strategy being used in Iraq. It all goes to hearts and minds. Don't be the bad guy. Win the PR war, then you can win the war.

However, here is the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot.

Howard Dean, the Democratic National Chairman, on Monday told a San Antonio, Texas, "the idea that we're going to win the war in Iraq is an idea which is just plain wrong."

That's just dumb.

"Dean's take on Iraq makes even less sense than the scream in Iowa: Both are uninformed and unhelpful," said Rep. Jim Marshall (D-Ga.), recalling Dean's famous election-night roar after stumbling in Iowa during his 2004 presidential bid.

Imagine the soundbites you could create for TV commericals.

Nancy Pelosi has also been singing this song by endorsing Murtha's proposal. Murtha can get away with everything he is saying. He is pretty much bulletproof to GOP attacks. However, Pelosi is a much easier target on which the GOP can hang the defeatist label.

Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee Chairman Rahm Emanuel (Ill.) and Rep. Steny H. Hoyer (Md.), the second-ranking House Democratic leader, have told colleagues that Pelosi's recent endorsement of a speedy redeployment, combined with her claim that more than half of House Democrats support her position, could backfire on the party, congressional sources said.

These sources said the two leaders have expressed worry that Pelosi is playing into Bush's hands by suggesting Democrats are the party of a quick pullout -- an unpopular position in many of the most competitive House races.

Its a shame if this continues because the Democrats had a huge opportunity. With the continued GOP scandals and the ability to score points at will by simply pointing out how we got in the war AND how badly its been managed since, the Democrats had (maybe still have) the ability to stand and maintain the high ground without putting to much out there that could be used against them later.

[Echo]

Actually, in the eyes of much of Iraq, most of the rest of the world, and a growing number of Americans, our military's presence in Iraq is an illegal and unnecessary occupation and is hurting much more than it is helping. Is it fair to call the soldiers terrorists when they are just following orders from the chief terrorist, named Bush? We call anyone who follows orders from Bin Laden or Al-Zarqawi a terrorist. What's the difference?

[BikeGeek]

I believe it was Rush Limbaugh who added the headline with "terrorist" to the quote. Whether you love him or hate him, you have to admit his bread and butter is stirring up reactions like this from both sides.

Did he call him a terrorist? By definition, yes. Do you seriously think that's what he intended in using the word "terrorizing?" Probably not. I mean, by definition, I could call my dentist a terrorist, he terrifies me.

[N8]

Did he call him a terrorist? By definition, yes. Do you seriously think that's what he intended in using the word "terrorizing?" Probably not.


Kerry ain't very smart for being an Harvard grad and all...

[DRB]

Kerry ain't very smart for being an Harvard grad and all...

No I think he is very smart. Because when taken in total he is absolutely right. Why aren't the Iraqis doing this work? How come the adminstration hasn't put the necessary resources in place that by this point (2.5 years later) that Iraqis aren't doing the door banging even with US supervision?

[N8]

No I think he is very smart. Because when taken in total he is absolutely right. Why aren't the Iraqis doing this work? How come the adminstration hasn't put the necessary resources in place that by this point (2.5 years later) that Iraqis aren't doing the door banging even with US supervision?


Did you really think this was going to be that easy?

[Old Man G Funk]

Did you really think this was going to be that easy?
The administration sure did. We were supposed to be welcomed with flowers. Dubya already did his "Mission Accomplished" routine. According to them, we should have been in and out of there a long time ago.

[DRB]

Did you really think this was going to be that easy?

How long does it take to train a soldier and put him in the field? How long does it take to train a cop and put him in the field?

From the Mission Accomplished statement was May 2, 2003. That is 31 months and 5 days. Does it take that long?

[N8]

How long does it take to train a soldier and put him in the field? How long does it take to train a cop and put him in the field?

From the Mission Accomplished statement was May 2, 2003. That is 31 months and 5 days. Does it take that long?


The Mission accomplished was in reference to the ending of Saddam's rein.

[DRB]

The Mission accomplished was in reference to the ending of Saddam's rein.

Which is why we are where we are. The mission was never thought out beyond ending Saddam's reign. And the reality is that it hasn't even been thought out since then.

[N8]

Which is why we are where we are. The mission was never thought out beyond ending Saddam's reign. And the reality is that it hasn't even been thought out since then.


What's that old saying about a battle plan...? Oh yeah... it's no good any more once contact is made with the enemy...

[Old Man G Funk]

The Mission accomplished was in reference to the ending of Saddam's rein.
So was that shifting rationale number 4 or 5? I lose count. I mean, first it was about finding the WMD. There was also something about fighting the terrorists. Wait, we were supposed to be spreading democracy too. Oh, the mission was just to topple Saddam. Hmmmm, how could one be confused about that?

[Old Man G Funk]

What's that old saying about a battle plan...? Oh yeah... it's no good any more once contact is made with the enemy...
Um, contact was already made by then, or are you saying that the mission was accomplished before a shot was fired? Oh, maybe you are referring to the insurgents? The insurgents who came there to fight against us and our presence?

[narlus]

Kerry ain't very smart for being an Harvard grad and all...

i think the word you are looking for is cunning

[fluff]

The Mission accomplished was in reference to the ending of Saddam's rein.

You got a copy of the original mission plan with objectives an' all?

[DRB]

What's that old saying about a battle plan...? Oh yeah... it's no good any more once contact is made with the enemy...

Or it could mean that it was a bad plan. And you definately don't keep winging it.

[N8]

So where does the US go from here?

Pull out now?

[BikeGeek]

i think the word you are looking for is cunning

A cunning linguist? :)

[DRB]

So where does the US go from here?

Pull out now?

No its where does the White House and Congress, which are both controlled by the GOP, go from here. At present the 60% of Americans think that its being mismanaged. They are the ones that have to develop the strategy and then implement it. Its what they signed up for, or here is a good 'ole GOP term, its their moral responsibility.

If they don't the public is going to evicerate them in the mid terms.

[Old Man G Funk]

So where does the US go from here?

Pull out now?
Well, for one thing we could actually have a discussion about that instead of labeling all those who have differing opinions as traitors or un-American.

We probably can't just pull out, but we could put more troops on the ground and do things right. We could have a president that admits that mistakes were made and works to correct them instead of burying his head in the sand and yelling, "I'm not listening. I made no mistakes. We will stay the course no matter what!"

[N8]

This is Face the Nation last Sunday:

Bob Schieffer says, "Democrat Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, he takes a very different view, Senator Kerry. He says basically that we should stay the course, because he says real progress is being made. He says, 'This is a war between 27 million Iraqis who want freedom and 10,000 terrorists.' He says we're in a watershed transformation. What about that?"

JOHN KERRY: I don't agree with that. But I think what we need to do is recognize what we all agree on, which is, you've got to begin to set benchmarks for accomplishment; you've got to begin to transfer authority to the Iraqis, and there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the -- of -- of -- of -- historical customs, religious customs, whether you like it or not. Iraqis should be doing that. And after all of these two and a half years, with all --


Let's see how this play out....

There's so much... I'm sorry I even have to play this buffoon for you, but he's assumed the position of official Democrat Party spokesman on this. He's putting himself out there, so we have to deal with it. There's so much wrong with this. You've got to begin to transfer authority to the Iraqis? What's been going on the last year and a half that he hasn't noticed, number one. Number two: "After all these 2-1/2 years and all the talk of 210,000 people trained, no excuse for not transferring more of that authority"? What are we in the process of doing? All these people are trying to do is get ahead of something that is already happening so they can take credit for it. But this business that US soldiers are terrorizing Iraqi women and children, you now, if you doubted John Kerry during the 2004 presidential campaign, if you doubted anybody, the Swift Boat Vets, if you doubted anybody about him, you shouldn't now. It is clear what he thinks of the US military. His view is common throughout the Democratic Party. The only Senate Democrat who sounds like FDR or Truman right now, is Joe Lieberman. You've got the likes of John Kerry and Dick Durbin now echoed by Harry Reid and Ted Kennedy as the voice of the modern Democratic Party, which despises the US military and feels no compunction whatsoever to characterize them as terrorists.

[fluff]

Well you've just about shown Limbaugh to be a dick. No surprises there then..

[N8]

Well, for one thing we could actually have a discussion about that instead of labeling all those who have differing opinions as traitors or un-American.

We probably can't just pull out, but we could put more troops on the ground and do things right. We could have a president that admits that mistakes were made and works to correct them instead of burying his head in the sand and yelling, "I'm not listening. I made no mistakes. We will stay the course no matter what!"


I think neither one of your comments is reality.

[Old Man G Funk]

Well, for one thing we could actually have a discussion about that instead of labeling all those who have differing opinions as traitors or un-American.

We probably can't just pull out, but we could put more troops on the ground and do things right. We could have a president that admits that mistakes were made and works to correct them instead of burying his head in the sand and yelling, "I'm not listening. I made no mistakes. We will stay the course no matter what!"
I left out the charge that all those who disagree hate the military. Thanks for reminding me N8.

[N8]

Well you've just about shown Limbaugh to be a dick. No surprises there then..


Only because you are not smart enought to see both sides of the equation.

[Old Man G Funk]

I think neither one of your comments is reality.
Um, what world are you living in?

Dick Cheney is STILL trying to claim that Saddam had ties to terrorists. Nope, they didn't make any errors there.

Rumsfield is STILL in his position. Nope, he's never made any errors in judgement.

Our policy on torture was changed so that so-called enemy combatants would not be covered and we had problems at Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and who knows where else. Nope, no problems there.

Lately, it's been the president going on the offensive to attack democrats for flip-flopping on their support. Something like, 'They supported the war before with all the intelligence, now they don't. We have to stay the course, otherwise the terrorists win.' Truth is that the intelligence given to the dems. in Congress was redacted versions of the full intelligence that the pres. saw. Nope, no problems there.

[fluff]

I think neither one of your comments is reality.
Why??

[Old Man G Funk]

Only because you are not smart enought to see both sides of the equation.
Why don't you educate us unsmrt people then?

Did we find WMD?
Did Saddam have ties to Al Qaeda?
Have we spread democracy to Iraq?
Whatever happened to Osama?
Whatever happened to Afghanistan?
Are we behind on our goals to train troops and rebuild the infrastructure of both countries?

[N8]

Um, what world are you living in?

Dick Cheney is STILL trying to claim that Saddam had ties to terrorists. Nope, they didn't make any errors there.

Rumsfield is STILL in his position. Nope, he's never made any errors in judgement.

Our policy on torture was changed so that so-called enemy combatants would not be covered and we had problems at Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and who knows where else. Nope, no problems there.

Lately, it's been the president going on the offensive to attack democrats for flip-flopping on their support. Something like, 'They supported the war before with all the intelligence, now they don't. We have to stay the course, otherwise the terrorists win.' Truth is that the intelligence given to the dems. in Congress was redacted versions of the full intelligence that the pres. saw. Nope, no problems there.


I think 99.9% of the world believed the pre-invasion intel and with good reason.

[fluff]

I think 99.9% of the world believed the pre-invasion intel and with good reason.
You've got to be kidding.

[Old Man G Funk]

I think 99.9% of the world believed the pre-invasion intel and with good reason.
Would that good reason be the part where Bush ignored what the intelligence estimates said? Would it be the part where he made stuff up (Yellowcake in Niger)? Would it be the part where we pulled the UN inspectors out without letting them do their jobs because Bush was getting an itchy trigger finger and was worried that troop morale may be low if we don't let them blow stuff up?

[Old Man G Funk]

Why don't you educate us unsmrt people then?

Did we find WMD?
Did Saddam have ties to Al Qaeda?
Have we spread democracy to Iraq?
Whatever happened to Osama?
Whatever happened to Afghanistan?
Are we behind on our goals to train troops and rebuild the infrastructure of both countries?
How about this N8, what WAS our rationale for going in there?

[Reactor]

I think 99.9% of the world believed the pre-invasion intel and with good reason.


Unfortunately the "good reason" was the .1% of the population withheld and contradicting intel, and selectively feed the rest just the most favorable and tantalizing tidbits. They trusted the administration, which since has been shown untrustworthy, to put it mildly.

[Westy]

I think 99.9% of the world believed the pre-invasion intel and with good reason.


let's be honest N8. Whether they beleived it or not most of the Dems would have voted against giving Bush the ability to invade Iraq on partisan reasons alone but the environment after 9/11 was such that anyone not voting with the president on security issues would have been lynched as un-american. The Dems were too chicken **** to make a stand then and too chicken **** to admit that is why they voted the way they did in the first place. I doubt anyone voted to give Bushy invasion power because they thought it was the right thing to do.

Edit: There were plenty of people in the world that didn't go for the pre-war intel, that is why things never got through the Security Councel and why and other than the Brits no other country gave any real military support.

[DRB]

Let's see how this play out....

That's what Bush as been saying. That isn't a plan.

[N8]

let's be honest N8. Whether they beleived it or not most of the Dems would have voted against giving Bush the ability to invade Iraq on partisan reasons alone but the environment after 9/11 was such that anyone not voting with the president on security issues would have been lynched as un-american. The Dems were too chicken **** to make a stand then and too chicken **** to admit that is why they voted the way they did in the first place. I doubt anyone voted to give Bushy invasion power because they thought it was the right thing to do.


So, in a way, they are far worse than Bush...

[Westy]

So, in a way, they are far worse than Bush...

Depends on what you think is worse, being stupid and powerless or stupid, powerfull, dangerous and get caught with your dick in the mashed potatoes?

[Old Man G Funk]

So, in a way, they are far worse than Bush...
Perhaps for being cowed by charges of un-Americanism, but Bush is far more culpable for not only breeding and inflaming that atmosphere, but also for trumping up the evidence against Iraq.

[fluff]

I think 99.9% of the world believed the pre-invasion intel and with good reason.
How do you explain the huge ant-war protests around Europe (including Bush's chief ally and co-liar Blair's state) and the refusal of the UN to sanction the invasion?

[DRB]

get caught with your dick in the mashed potatoes?

You are not coming to Christmas dinner.

[Reactor]

Depends on what you think is worse, being stupid and powerless or stupid, powerfull, dangerous and get caught with your dick in the mashed potatoes?

If it were a pop-tart instead of mashed potatoes there would be impeachment proceedings......

[Westy]

Depends on what you think is worse, being stupid and powerless or stupid, powerfull, dangerous and get caught with your dick in the mashed potatoes?

Actually most of congress probably voted as their constituency probably wanted. Seeing as thought there was popular support for the bill of goods Bush was selling if you really wanted to finger point it would have to be at the American people as a whole.

[Old Man G Funk]

Actually most of congress probably voted as their constituency probably wanted. Seeing as thought there was popular support for the bill of goods Bush was selling if you really wanted to finger point it would have to be at the American people as a whole.
Who were whipped up into a righteous rage by false claims made by the White House.

[N8]

How do you explain the huge ant-war protests around Europe (including Bush's chief ally and co-liar Blair's state) and the refusal of the UN to sanction the invasion?


Meh.. eurolibs can always be counted on to protest just about anything... especially if it involves the US. I remember them protesting Regean too... of course now the soviets union doesn't exist any more.

[Reactor]

Meh.. eurolibs can always be counted on to protest just about anything... especially if it involves the US. I remember them protesting Regean too... of course now the soviets union doesn't exist any more.


In large part because of some very special intelligence Ronnie obtained before going to Iceland. He knew the Soviet Union was on the verge of collapse and the military was broken and near revolt. He used the intel to force concessions from the USSR that ultimately lead to it's downfall. There was a lot that went on behind the scenes.

Before you site Regan as paragon, you should realize the current terrorism crisis is largely due to actions he and Bush the older took.

[Old Man G Funk]

Meh.. eurolibs can always be counted on to protest just about anything... especially if it involves the US. I remember them protesting Regean too... of course now the soviets union doesn't exist any more.
Ad hominem.

[fluff]

Meh.. eurolibs can always be counted on to protest just about anything... especially if it involves the US. I remember them protesting Regean too... of course now the soviets union doesn't exist any more.

And the UN? And your dumb 99.9% statement?

[Old Man G Funk]

I think 99.9% of the world believed the pre-invasion intel and with good reason.
Didn't Hans Blix say that HE didn't think Iraq had WMD?

[N8]

And the UN? And your dumb 99.9% statement?


The UN? :p:p:p

[fluff]

Didn't Hans Blix say that HE didn't think Iraq had WMD?
Yeah, but what would he know?

And then had his character assasinated.

[Old Man G Funk]

The UN? :p:p:p
Yeah, good idea. Make fun of the organization THAT WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG.

[Westy]

Yeah, good idea. Make fun of the organization THAT WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG.


The UN sucks, it undermines the right and authority of a sovereign country to make really stupid decisions.

[Slugman]

Only because you are not smart enought to see both sides of the equation.

"Pot calling kettle black" award of the year goes to N8

[reflux]

"Pot calling kettle black" award of the year goes to N8
It must be fun for N8 to be so naive...

[Westy]

It must be fun for N8 to be so naive...

His avatar, of a child’s toy, shows his naiveté.

[N8]

His avatar, of a child’s toy, shows his naiveté.


No way!

[Westy]

No way!

Way.

trollbot

[LordOpie]

Serious props to N8 for both participating in the conversation and holding ground against many attackers.

Seriously.

[fluff]

Serious props to N8 for both participating in the conversation and holding ground against many attackers.

Seriously.

Sorry O'pie - your post appears to be encrypted.

[Old Man G Funk]

Serious props to N8 for both participating in the conversation and holding ground against many attackers.

Seriously.
I'll give props for having the nerve to stand up for one's views, but not for the inanity of those views.

[N8]

As a direct result of this thread I recognize my evil ways and hereby renounce my conservative views. I also promise to hate Geo. Bush no matter what. I will automatically change all good news about the economy into bad in the hope that Hillary Clinton (or another liberal democrat) wins the White House in 2008 and we can all live happily ever after.

You guys are that good!


Take me, an innocent neonate, unto you bosom!

[Old Man G Funk]

As a direct result of this thread I recognize my evil ways and hereby renounce my conservative views. I also promise to hate Geo. Bush no matter what. I will automatically change all good news about the economy into bad in the hope that Hillary Clinton (or another liberal democrat) wins the White House in 2008 and we can all live happily ever after.

You guys are that good!


Take me, an innocent neonate, unto you bosom!
No one is saying that you have to be liberal, but blind acceptance of all that Dubya says is not healthy. Do you really believe that Iraq had WMD? Do you really believe that Saddam and Osama had links? If not, then why are you not upset that they lied to you about that? If you do believe it, then why don't you actually read the news or the accounts of the bi-partisan committees that all found no connections and no WMD?

[N8]

No one is saying that you have to be liberal, but blind acceptance of all that Dubya says is not healthy. Do you really believe that Iraq had WMD? Do you really believe that Saddam and Osama had links? If not, then why are you not upset that they lied to you about that? If you do believe it, then why don't you actually read the news or the accounts of the bi-partisan committees that all found no connections and no WMD?


I am one of you now. It's such a relief not to have to do mush thinking other than to blame Bush for everything. Damn... if I'd known sooner...

[Old Man G Funk]

I am one of you now. It's such a relief not to have to do mush thinking other than to blame Bush for everything. Damn... if I'd known sooner...
Considering all of our replies to you have involved much more intelligent arguments than simply blindly following what Dubya says, I would be more careful about my snarky replies if I were you.

BTW, those weren't rhetorical questions. Seriously, I'd like to know. Do you believe all that stuff that Bush and Co. fed you or not?

[N8]

Considering all of our replies to you have involved much more intelligent arguments than simply blindly following what Dubya says, I would be more careful about my snarky replies if I were you.

BTW, those weren't rhetorical questions. Seriously, I'd like to know. Do you believe all that stuff that Bush and Co. fed you or not?


The shrub lied and people died!!!

While I can easily point the finger of blame at Bush and Co I don't have any real plan or idea for how to deal with Iraq, the terrorists, national security etc... I do know that I am pretty sure I am against torture though.

[Old Man G Funk]

The shrub lied and people died!!!

While I can easily point the finger of blame at Bush and Co I don't have any real plan or idea for how to deal with Iraq, the terrorists, national security etc... I do know that I am pretty sure I am against torture though.
Do you honestly think the way to deal with Iraq, terrorists, national security, et. al. is to "Stay the course?" Do you think things are working or that we need to sit down, think about things, and come up with new ideas? It's all right for them to try and fail, but to continually fail because they won't admit any mistakes or look to make any corrections is just assinine. If you took the wrong line on a trail and crashed because of it, would you correct the next time through, or would you continue to take that same line over and over and never admit that you crashed? Most people would take a different line. That's what we want from our elected officials.

[Westy]

I do know that I am pretty sure I am against torture though.

Then how can you justify what you have been doing to us.:blah:

[Old Man G Funk]

The shrub lied and people died!!!

While I can easily point the finger of blame at Bush and Co I don't have any real plan or idea for how to deal with Iraq, the terrorists, national security etc... I do know that I am pretty sure I am against torture though.
Also, we can definitely point the finger when they lie to us and get us into a bad situation because of it. That doesn't help solve the fact that we are now in that situation of course, but shouldn't they be held accountable?

[N8]

Do you honestly think the way to deal with Iraq, terrorists, national security, et. al. is to "Stay the course?" Do you think things are working or that we need to sit down, think about things, and come up with new ideas? It's all right for them to try and fail, but to continually fail because they won't admit any mistakes or look to make any corrections is just assinine. If you took the wrong line on a trail and crashed because of it, would you correct the next time through, or would you continue to take that same line over and over and never admit that you crashed? Most people would take a different line. That's what we want from our elected officials.

No, I think the best thing to do is not to come up with any plan that can be implimented and instead rely on blaming Bush for his plan, what ever that is (includes "staying the course" etc). That way, we liberals can be on the right side of the issue without actaully having to come up with something that probably will be as bad or worse and risk losing the White House in 08.

[N8]

Also, we can definitely point the finger when they lie to us and get us into a bad situation because of it. That doesn't help solve the fact that we are now in that situation of course, but shouldn't they be held accountable?


I don't know. What does John Dean want us to think on that?

[N8]

Then how can you justify what you have been doing to us.:blah:


I said I was 'pretty sure' I am against it...

:p

[Old Man G Funk]

No, I think the best thing to do is not to come up with any plan that can be implimented and instead rely on blaming Bush for his plan, what ever that is (includes "staying the course" etc). That way, we liberals can be on the right side of the issue without actaully having to come up with something that probably will be as bad or worse and risk losing the White House in 08.
If you want to bash the Democrats, go right ahead, but it completely evades my questions and shows you for who you are for 2 reasons. One it is completely ad hominem to dismiss my arguments in this manner, especially considering the fact that I am not a democrat. And two, it shows that you really aren't interested in discussion and are really only interested in bashing Dems. and liberals, which ironically is that exact thing you are blasting them for doing. Sort of hypocritical if you ask me.

[Old Man G Funk]

I don't know. What does John Dean want us to think on that?
So, you think your elected officials should not be held to any standard? They can lie all they want to start a war and you don't care?

[N8]

One it is completely ad hominem to dismiss my arguments in this manner, especially considering the fact that I am not a democrat.

..ad homowhat..??? :confused:

And two, it shows that you really aren't interested in discussion and are really only interested in bashing Dems. and liberals, which ironically is that exact thing you are blasting them for doing. Sort of hypocritical if you ask me.

I don't remember asking.... :)



PS: Bush suxors!

[N8]

So, you think your elected officials should not be held to any standard? They can lie all they want to start a war and you don't care?


I said I was outraged... sheesh.


:p

[Old Man G Funk]

I said I was outraged... sheesh.


:p
No, you asked what "John Dean" would say. It shows the typical mindset of one who follows what the party says and then assumes that everyone else must do the same thing. Think for yourself for a change.

Do I agree with Dean? Did you even ask? No, you just assumed that because I have liberal tendencies then I must be a Democrat and therefore I must listen to and spout everything that Dean says. That's insulting. For the record, I think that if we were to simply pull out now, it would plunge Iraq into a civil war and wouldn't do anyone any good. We need to figure out how to make the country stable and how to get ourselves out of this mess, but pulling out tomorrow is not the answer.

[N8]

No, you asked what "John Dean" would say. It shows the typical mindset of one who follows what the party says and then assumes that everyone else must do the same thing. Think for yourself for a change.

Do I agree with Dean? Did you even ask? No, you just assumed that because I have liberal tendencies then I must be a Democrat and therefore I must listen to and spout everything that Dean says. That's insulting. For the record, I think that if we were to simply pull out now, it would plunge Iraq into a civil war and wouldn't do anyone any good. We need to figure out how to make the country stable and how to get ourselves out of this mess, but pulling out tomorrow is not the answer.

I made no such assumption. All I did was do as most of my fellow liberals do these days, defer to the party leadership for opinion. Oh... and blame Bush because we all know what kind of guy he is.

[Old Man G Funk]

..ad homowhat..??? :confused:



I don't remember asking.... :)



PS: Bush suxors!
Ad hominem. It means that you are attacking me without regard to the substance of my argument. You attack Democrats and act like it has defused my argument when it has done nothing of the sort and only shown you to be unable to counter my arguments. Usually people who have nothing intelligent to say resort to ad hominem attacks.

[N8]

Ad hominem. It means that you are attacking me without regard to the substance of my argument. You attack Democrats and act like it has defused my argument when it has done nothing of the sort and only shown you to be unable to counter my arguments. Usually people who have nothing intelligent to say resort to ad hominem attacks.


Well thank goodness I don't know what that means. Can we blame Bush for it anyway?

:confused:

[Old Man G Funk]

I made no such assumption. All I did was do as most of my fellow liberals do these days, defer to the party leadership for opinion. Oh... and blame Bush because we all know what kind of guy he is.
More ad hominem.

Plus, it's a straw man argument.

Nothing worth saying?

A quick check of the news shows that you are completely wrong. There's an article on the front page of the Post today about how not all Democrats are following Dean's idea. And, let's get something else straight; a liberal is not necessarily a Democrat.

[Old Man G Funk]

Well thank goodness I don't know what that means. Can we blame Bush for it anyway?

:confused:
I'm glad that you revel in your ignorance.

[N8]

More ad hominem.

Plus, it's a straw man argument.

Nothing worth saying?

A quick check of the news shows that you are completely wrong. There's an article on the front page of the Post today about how not all Democrats are following Dean's idea. And, let's get something else straight; a liberal is not necessarily a Democrat.

OMG!!! Out party is totally fractured falling apart!!! I though Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean were our spokesmen.

How are we ever going to win back power now?

:(

[N8]

I'm glad that you revel in your ignorance.


Again, clearly Bush's fault!

[Old Man G Funk]

OMG!!! Out party is totally fractured falling apart!!! I though Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean were our spokesmen.

How are we ever going to win back power now?

:(
The only reason I've continued this so long is so that others reading this can see just how vacuous your arguments are N8. I hope others can see your complete lack of substance, your logical fallacies, and your total disregard for the position of others, not to mention the fact that you have clearly not read what I've written.

[N8]

The only reason I've continued this so long is so that others reading this can see just how vacuous your arguments are N8. I hope others can see your complete lack of substance, your logical fallacies, and your total disregard for the position of others, not to mention the fact that you have clearly not read what I've written.


Bush lied and people died?

[N8]

The only reason I've continued this so long is so that others reading this can see just how vacuous your arguments are N8. I hope others can see your complete lack of substance, your logical fallacies, and your total disregard for the position of others, not to mention the fact that you have clearly not read what I've written.


If by that you mean that you don't really have any idea how to deal with anything and you are not advancing any solutions for any of the problems our nation has to deal with, and you can blame Bush for everything and criticize any plan he comes up with while not advancing one of your own, then yes, yes I am.

[N8]

Feel better now? :)

It's all right for them to try and fail, but to continually fail because they won't admit any mistakes or look to make any corrections is just assinine.

Bush Admits 'Fits and Starts' in Iraq Plan (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051207/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq;_ylt=Aidkl.OjzYA9DNKunQISv8iyFz4D;_ylu=X3o DMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--)

[Discostu]

Feel better now? :)



Bush Admits 'Fits and Starts' in Iraq Plan (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051207/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq;_ylt=Aidkl.OjzYA9DNKunQISv8iyFz4D;_ylu=X3o DMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--)

"While not admitting errors, Bush spoke about how the U.S. "adjusted our approach""

[beestiboy]

While I supported going into Iraq initially (im still sick to my stomach when i see ground zero) and i voted both times for Dubya I no longer support him. But it has nothing to do with Iraq. Bush is a horrible CEO, I wouldnt let him speak at an 8th grade graduation ceremony.

I dont know of and wont pretend to have a solution to Iraq. NO ONE has an idea on what to do with Iraq. Not the dems or repubs or the Germans or the French. Pulling out is not a viable option especially if you are Iraqi. That is the last thing they need is for us to leave them with zero help, practically zero infastructure, and a political mess that is just as likely to put Saddam back in charge (lest we not forget that Saddam was a tyrant with or without us) as someone even less desirable.

But what many of you are failing to see or at least acknowledge is that none of the politicians in this country care about Iraq, or the price of gas, or whether there is a housing bubble. They will do or say anything we want to hear so that they are reelected...plain and simple.

In California, the state assembly has an approval rate of around 30% yet in the last election (2004) not a single seat changed parties. Now either the system is rigged or we as a populas dont care.

The fact that the Dems bought the WMD excuse, shame on them for not having the collective fortitude to take the heat from the American people and do what they felt was right and just. It is amazing just how power drunk politicians become when its all on the line. And it is not just the Dems its both sides of the Isle. Neither side has individuals just a common agenda. Pushing on us whatever we will eat.

Sorry for the rant I dont comment too often in the PD anymore so when i do it tends to spew a little long.

[Changleen]

While I supported going into Iraq initially (im still sick to my stomach when i see ground zero)And here, Ladies and Gentlemen, is the problem.

Beesti, what exactly did Iraq have to do with 9/11?

[fluff]

I made no such assumption. All I did was do as most of my fellow liberals do these days, defer to the party leadership for opinion. Oh... and blame Bush because we all know what kind of guy he is.
Hahahahhahahahahahhahah. When did YOU ever have your own opinion N8?

Why don't you explain your plan for Iraq?

(And yes, I know I will not get an answer.)

[valve bouncer]

Hahahahhahahahahahhahah. When did YOU ever have your own opinion N8?

Why don't you explain your plan for Iraq?

(And yes, I know I will not get an answer.)
It's hopeless, why do we expect anything useful out of N8. The man is obviously incapable. Most conversations with him go like this.

"Hey everybody, I had a bowel movement today"
-That's good Nate, that's very good

"The meds make it difficult you know"
-Yes, yes I know all too well.

"Mrs Smith at the learning centre gave me this star"
-Terrific Nate, that's because you're a winner!

"I have to take a rest now"
- Sweet dreams, Nate. You're a beautiful person.

[Old Man G Funk]

If by that you mean that you don't really have any idea how to deal with anything and you are not advancing any solutions for any of the problems our nation has to deal with, and you can blame Bush for everything and criticize any plan he comes up with while not advancing one of your own, then yes, yes I am.
I was going to let it drop, but my ego is getting the best of me here (yeah, I know it's a vice but sometimes I can't shake it.)

Bush only has 1 plan and it isn't working. So, yeah, I am going to criticize it. You can't know if I'd criticize another plan of his because he has no other plans, and he refuses to come up with another plan.

I do have some ideas, but everytime I've tried to discuss ideas, you have come back with nothing but third-grade level sarcasm...(well, even that might be insulting to third graders.)

One thing we could do is increase our troop presence. It would provide for more stability within the country (and I'll point out that I've already said this, and you obviously ignored it.) We could also swallow our pride and admit that the UN was right and see if we can't get them back on our side to use their expertise in nation building. We could focus on getting the infrastructure back in place, you know running water, electricity, schools, etc. We could stop holding people indefinitely in secret prisons around the world and improve our standing with the rest of the world, thereby making it more likely that they will help us and also hopefully dousing the flames of anti-American hatred that fuels terrorist recruitment efforts. We could back up our pro-Democracy stance with actual pressure on our non-Democratic allies to enact some reform.

No, N8, I don't have any ideas. Feel free to make some inane comment now and completely ignore all that I wrote.

[fluff]

I was going to let it drop, but my ego is getting the best of me here (yeah, I know it's a vice but sometimes I can't shake it.)


Your real problem is that you are trying to reason with a guy who, if not a complete idiot, does a brilliant impression of one.

I suspect that N8 cannot be as dumb as he comes across but I do sometimes wonder. After all, he can get onto the internet, but there again he can't spell his own name.

[Old Man G Funk]

Your real problem is that you are trying to reason with a guy who, if not a complete idiot, does a brilliant impression of one.

I suspect that N8 cannot be as dumb as he comes across but I do sometimes wonder. After all, he can get onto the internet, but there again he can't spell his own name.
I was under that impression that it was a guy who isn't necessarily an idiot, but doesn't have an original thought and can only parrot what his party says. Then, when faced with criticism or something he can't handle, he resorts to childish tactics, probably because he thinks it is funny. What's really funny is that even after we all get the joke (which isn't funny) that he keeps going at it and makes us all laugh at his inanity.

[MudGrrl]

One thing we could do is increase our troop presence.


you *know* I'm on your side and all....


but, how exactly do we increase troop presence?
If we're losing troops due to them being sick of the bullshat (armored HUMMVs, extended deployment, stop loss, getting paid a whole lot of nothing to be sent out in a field of IEDs...)... who in the heck are we going to put there? Do we recruit more people with the promise of travel, adventure, and gettin' to kill them thar terrorists?



Operations Tempo Remains Retention Challenge (http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Aug1999/n08171999_9908173.html)

Two Years Later, Iraq War Drains Military (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48306-2005Mar18.html)
"Stretched by Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States lacks a sufficiently robust ability to put large numbers of "boots on the ground" in case of a major emergency elsewhere"
********************

Shelley, for example, has signed up four people in nearly six months, despite working 16-hour days. Asked why recruiting is so difficult, he has a quick reply: "The war."
****************

As the military struggles to find fresh recruits, there is unprecedented strain on service members and their families.

Since 2001, the U.S. military has deployed more than 1 million troops for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, with 341,000, or nearly a third, serving two or more overseas tours.
***********

"We've deployed units of the Old Guard!" he said, referring to the first-ever deployment of the ceremonial guard from Fort Myer, when a company was dispatched to Djibouti last year. "We've reached up inside of Alaska and grabbed the forces up there," he said. "Korea! Who would have ever thought that we would have deployed a combat formation?" he said, referring to a brigade sent from South Korea to Iraq.
***********

"I worry about the soldiers with the second and third tour . . . since 9/11," Cody, the Army vice chief, told reporters Thursday.
************



Retention Problems (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0124-03.htm)
The voluntary survey of 5,000 Guard troops returning from Iraq and other overseas deployments found that the rate of those leaving the military after such assignments could jump from a current 12.5 percent to more than 20 percent.


Do we ask troops who are out to come back?
I imagine some have....

Should the military just grab everyone who's been in the service over the past, say 15 years, and drop them into the military again?


I got it.... instead of cutting taxes for the rich, we use that money to pay the troops more........

well.. maybe not..

[Old Man G Funk]

but, how exactly do we increase troop presence?

Yes, that is a problem and I'm not sure we can do it alone. One way would be to swallow our pride and try to get the UN and NATO to help out and get more boots on the ground. It would involve some sucking up and we would get more than a few, "I told you so"s from them, but it's probably worth it in order to get the force we need there which would help protect our troops.

Plus, maybe we could stop giving tax cuts to the rich and paying soldiers more, that's a good idea.

I will say this, at least you have some ideas, and a dialog has opened up, and we are discussing the issues and possible remedies. If only our elected leaders could do the same.

[bigdrop05]

John Kerry is a freaking ghay jerk off idiot.
If he ever trolls through our town he's sniper bait !That's a fact .
The democraps lost thier power years ago & will do & say anything to try & help themselves get power back.
NO spine.
Flip-flop positions on a monthly basis.
but oh no, how dare anyone challenge the elite-ist John Kerry !!
He wants our power to be channeled through the U.N...Even if we get attacked on our own soil, he would have to get advice or permission to counter....& it just goes on....
Democraps view is to get along & don't piss off anyone.oh we made the terrorist angry so that's why they are attacking us !
Get real you fruitcakes....

[reflux]

John Kerry is a freaking ghay jerk off idiot.
I was fine with Kerry until I read your post, but no more. Thank you for your insightful comments, my view of the world has been forever changed.

[beestiboy]

And here, Ladies and Gentlemen, is the problem.

Beesti, what exactly did Iraq have to do with 9/11?

honestly at this point it doesnt matter. havent you ever stubbed your toe and then thrown your fist into a wall (i cant be the only one). It wasnt your fists fault or the wall but it felt better to focus the anguish into one spot and unleash. America as a whole wanted to focus its anger, our leaders gave us Afghanastan and Iraq. We punched the wall. I dont know what else to say.

Hindsight is 20/20, the media frenzy in this country both before and after were insane. We were all led to believe that this was the best approach, some because of party lines others because of anger. Those who opposed were simply outnumbered at that time.

[fluff]

Sheesh, N8's got some competition in this thread...

[DRB]

John Kerry is a freaking ghay jerk off idiot.
If he ever trolls through our town he's sniper bait !That's a fact .
The democraps lost thier power years ago & will do & say anything to try & help themselves get power back.
NO spine.
Flip-flop positions on a monthly basis.
but oh no, how dare anyone challenge the elite-ist John Kerry !!
He wants our power to be channeled through the U.N...Even if we get attacked on our own soil, he would have to get advice or permission to counter....& it just goes on....
Democraps view is to get along & don't piss off anyone.oh we made the terrorist angry so that's why they are attacking us !
Get real you fruitcakes....

You are an idiot.

[N8]

Sheesh, N8's got some competition in this thread...


I've flip-flopped, now I am a liberal!

Everything is Shrub's fault! Blame bushie!!!111

[fluff]

I've flip-flopped, now I am a liberal!

Everything is Shrub's fault! Blame bushie!!!111

I take it back, you're still the forum clown.

[Westy]

I've flip-flopped, now I am a liberal!

Everything is Shrub's fault! Blame bushie!!!111

Now that you have moved to the dark side you should know that Jr isn't smart enough to have done anything to be blamed for. It is Cheney, big oil, Skull and Bones and the Free Masons that are to blame.

[N8]

Now that you have moved to the dark side you should know that Jr isn't smart enough to have done anything to be blamed for. It is Cheney, big oil, Skull and Bones and the Free Masons that are to blame.


DAMN!

There is SOOOO much to learn... is there a "Being a liberal for dummies" guide or is that redundant?

[LordOpie]

I was fine with Kerry until I read your post, but no more. Thank you for your insightful comments, my view of the world has been forever changed.
Me too.

Conservative4Life, y0!

[Atomic Dog]

I'm expecting Bizarro Superman to come walking into my office at any time...

[Westy]

DAMN!

There is SOOOO much to learn... is there a "Being a liberal for dummies" guide or is that redundant?

It's kind of like being a right wing nut except instead of repeating what the GOP says you just make up your own crap. And you have to have at least 7 bumper stickers on your car.

[N8]

Just heard on the radio that Dean was echoing Kerry saying we are going to win the war on terror, but we have to do it the right way.


No further explaination on what the right way is though.

Sounds pretty simple, damn the shrub for not listening to them on this!!!! :angry:

[LordOpie]

Just heard on the radio that Dean was echoing Kerry saying we are going to win the war on terror, but we have to do it the right way.


No further explaination on what the right way is though.

Sounds pretty simple, damn the shrub for not listening to them on this!!!! :angry:
and no one questioned them on this? No, "hey, Dean, what's the plan? What's the right way?"

[N8]

and no one questioned them on this? No, "hey, Dean, what's the plan? What's the right way?"


Well of course not. The reporters were from our media. They did everything short of applauding though.

Stupid Bush!

[Old Man G Funk]

Well of course not. The reporters were from our media. They did everything short of applauding though.

Stupid Bush!
Your complaining about the media is starting to make you sound like a whiny liberal.

[N8]

Your complaining about the media is starting to make you sound like a whiny liberal.


Like there is any other kind.

:p

[Old Man G Funk]

Like there is any other kind.

:p
Cry it all out N8, it'll be OK.

[N8]

As a newly shat liberal, I am confused on if there are too many troops in Iraq and we need to send them home, or, there are not enough troops in Iraq and we should send more.

Can one of you clarify this for me?

Thx
-NeoN8

[Changleen]

As a newly shat liberal, I am confused on if there are too many troops in Iraq and we need to send them home, or, there are not enough troops in Iraq and we should send more.

Can one of you clarify this for me?

Thx
-NeoN8Well NeoN8, you have to decide what sort of Liberal you are I'm afraid. It's not a one size fits all proposition like being a Decepticon. In fact 'Liberal' is a pretty dumb description. I'm not very liberal about the influence of religion on sociey for example, whereas other people are more tollerant of it.

I personally think that either way you're screwed - results of doing something wrong and stupid in the first place.

It's probably more honourable to commit properly and actually finish the job of rebuilding, but knowing Bush he is totally incapable of this without f*cking the country over on behalf of US interests.

[Old Man G Funk]

As a newly shat liberal, I am confused on if there are too many troops in Iraq and we need to send them home, or, there are not enough troops in Iraq and we should send more.

Can one of you clarify this for me?

Thx
-NeoN8
So, which is it N8? Do we bow to our liberal overlords like you said before, or do we have differing opinions and ideas?

[Reactor]

honestly at this point it doesnt matter. havent you ever stubbed your toe and then thrown your fist into a wall (i cant be the only one). It wasnt your fists fault or the wall but it felt better to focus the anguish into one spot and unleash. America as a whole wanted to focus its anger, our leaders gave us Afghanastan and Iraq. We punched the wall. I dont know what else to say.

Hindsight is 20/20, the media frenzy in this country both before and after were insane. We were all led to believe that this was the best approach, some because of party lines others because of anger. Those who opposed were simply outnumbered at that time.


So...the invasion of Iraq was a "feel good film of the summer"?? And the price of admission was 2100+ american trrops dead, 21,000 American troops injured, 30,000 with serious mental issues, and tens of thousands of Iraqi deaths (trrops + insurgents + civilians)?

[N8]

So, which is it N8? Do we bow to our liberal overlords like you said before, or do we have differing opinions and ideas?


Sounds like there is a liberal position on just about every side you want to be on to me.

[Reactor]

As a newly shat liberal, I am confused on if there are too many troops in Iraq and we need to send them home, or, there are not enough troops in Iraq and we should send more.

Can one of you clarify this for me?

Thx
-NeoN8

There are just enough to thoroughly p*ss off just about everyone in the world, without actually being enough to suppress the insurgency. Either greatly increase the number, or bring them home, this middle of the road incompetence is wearing on my last nerve.

Ben Franklin said "A bird sitting on a fence is shot at from both sides". If we aren't going to change the status quo, we need to leave.

[Old Man G Funk]

I made no such assumption. All I did was do as most of my fellow liberals do these days, defer to the party leadership for opinion. Oh... and blame Bush because we all know what kind of guy he is.
Sounds like there is a liberal position on just about every side you want to be on to me.
Contradiction?

[Old Man G Funk]

honestly at this point it doesnt matter. havent you ever stubbed your toe and then thrown your fist into a wall (i cant be the only one). It wasnt your fists fault or the wall but it felt better to focus the anguish into one spot and unleash. America as a whole wanted to focus its anger, our leaders gave us Afghanastan and Iraq. We punched the wall. I dont know what else to say.

Hindsight is 20/20, the media frenzy in this country both before and after were insane. We were all led to believe that this was the best approach, some because of party lines others because of anger. Those who opposed were simply outnumbered at that time.
Afghanistan was the fist against the wall. Iraq came about 1.5 years later. Stubbed toes don't hurt for that long.

[Changleen]

John Kerry is a freaking ghay jerk off idiot.
If he ever trolls through our town he's sniper bait !That's a fact .
The democraps lost thier power years ago & will do & say anything to try & help themselves get power back.
NO spine.
Flip-flop positions on a monthly basis.
but oh no, how dare anyone challenge the elite-ist John Kerry !!
He wants our power to be channeled through the U.N...Even if we get attacked on our own soil, he would have to get advice or permission to counter....& it just goes on....
Democraps view is to get along & don't piss off anyone.oh we made the terrorist angry so that's why they are attacking us !
Get real you fruitcakes....You and The Ahmish should get together and kill yourselves.

[Changleen]

honestly at this point it doesnt matter. havent you ever stubbed your toe and then thrown your fist into a wall (i cant be the only one). It wasnt your fists fault or the wall but it felt better to focus the anguish into one spot and unleash. America as a whole wanted to focus its anger, our leaders gave us Afghanastan and Iraq. We punched the wall. I dont know what else to say.

Hindsight is 20/20, the media frenzy in this country both before and after were insane. We were all led to believe that this was the best approach, some because of party lines others because of anger. Those who opposed were simply outnumbered at that time.A country, especially a country that claims to be the world's policeman and a force for freedom and democracy, should NOT react like irritated child. If you really felt the childish urge to 'unleash' you should have at least shot your wad in the right direction.

[N8]

Contradiction?


Sure it is... that is the liberal democratic party.



http://media.pimpmyspace.org/glitter/006f3c04d6160831c7d650425c0452e6.gif

[narlus]

Now that you have moved to the dark side you should know that Jr isn't smart enough to have done anything to be blamed for. It is Cheney, big oil, Skull and Bones and the Free Masons that are to blame.

it's the Voice of God.

did anyone see the Onion this week? :D

[bigdrop05]

You are an idiot.
You are the stupid ghay idiot:dead:
Kerry sucks cows azz

[fluff]

You are the stupid ghay idiot:dead:
Kerry sucks cows azz

Hmm, are you trying to refute DRB's statement, or prove him right?

[LordOpie]

Opie rubs his hands in evil delight
You are the stupid ghay idiot:dead:
Kerry sucks cows azz
Oh please keep posting! This will be fun!

[Silver]

So...the invasion of Iraq was a "feel good film of the summer"?? And the price of admission was 2100+ american trrops dead, 21,000 American troops injured, 30,000 with serious mental issues, and tens of thousands of Iraqi deaths (trrops + insurgents + civilians)?

You can't count the ragheads. What are you, a communist?

[beestiboy]

So...the invasion of Iraq was a "feel good film of the summer"?? And the price of admission was 2100+ american trrops dead, 21,000 American troops injured, 30,000 with serious mental issues, and tens of thousands of Iraqi deaths (trrops + insurgents + civilians)?


Like I said Hindsight is 20/20, I personally thought if we were going to do this we should have done it all the way. We never bombed, and not enough troops. Look I was on my way to Bosnia when I was in the Army, I know well enough about being undersupplied and undertrained then sent to a part of the world that really doesnt want to see you.. The worst part of that was it was the U.N. in control

Reactor is the only one to suggest a realistic approach, the rest of you who complain want to just blame bush....go ahead he did eff up but what do we do now!!! We cant just pull out, that would be suicide for every Iraqi that believed us and joined us.