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Thrillkil
11-06-2005, 01:12 PM
hey - I was reading about this active suspension system K2/Noleen made around 1998.

http://www.proflex.demon.co.uk/855headfeatures/k2bike/smart.htm

I was curious as to why this system did not really take off. Does anyone have any insight into this?
maxyedor
11-06-2005, 06:51 PM
well you see linkage forks had this weird thing about them where they weighed more got less travel, and broke more often, so nobody would touch the stuff. People lost interest and it fizzled also think if a computer controled your suspension and that computer had its battery die then what?
zahgurim
11-06-2005, 10:29 PM
Doesn't Cannondale have an electronic Lefty?

Haha, I remember wanting one of those K2/Noleens soooo bad. I was on a Girvin Vector2 at the time, that was the new model.
Thrillkil
11-07-2005, 12:08 PM
I remember enough to know that linkage forks are dumb, but my main question is why people didn't pursue this sort of technology for other applications? I suppose the ghost of the Mavic Mektronic lives on :)
binary visions
11-07-2005, 12:24 PM
I think the ratio of cost:weight/complexity/expense ratio just isn't there. This died for the same reason that Shimano Airlines died. It's not that it didn't work well, or couldn't be developed further. I mean, who wouldn't want instant, snappy, precise shifting?

It's a big cost increase, only to add weight and significant complexity to your bike. Had the technology been developed further, it's very likely that weight, cost, and complexity would not have gone down - performance would have just gotten better. Riders will pay any amount of money for a small performance gain, but not when they pay so many penalties for it.

Suspension performance from a good quality, well set up shock is going to be pretty great. The performance increase just isn't/wasn't/won't be worth the downsides.
RhinofromWA
11-07-2005, 12:49 PM
Wasn't the K2 fork (both the linkage and std tele-fork) basically an electronic blow off valve? Or an early Platform system if you will. :think:

I can't remember.
Ascentrek
11-11-2005, 02:15 PM
hey - I was reading about this active suspension system K2/Noleen made around 1998.

http://www.proflex.demon.co.uk/855headfeatures/k2bike/smart.htm

I was curious as to why this system did not really take off. Does anyone have any insight into this?

Oh man... this brings back memories.

I have a K2 bike that has this shock (I loan it to people that want something to ride around town with). The shock is interesting. It hardens up toward the end of the stroke... that's what the electronic thingy does. You can also set it up for a stiffer ride or softer ride. Works much like air shocks do, but you need a 9 volt.
RhinofromWA
11-11-2005, 02:37 PM
I was curious as to why this system did not really take off. Does anyone have any insight into this?Because cyclist can't figure out how to adjust a freak'n deraileur let alone a computerized suspension system.

:D
Bati
11-14-2005, 08:39 AM
I think than linking a kind of piezoelectric valving to a torque sensor in pedaling system (BB, maybe), could be a good way to get an active suspension with effective pedaling... Honda gonna make it?
maxyedor
11-15-2005, 12:12 AM
Tenthousand Honda engineers are allready slaving away to create it after seeing this post, it will be done tomarrow and only cost 3.45 million
MikeT
11-21-2005, 10:04 PM
actually, there is suspension out there, i think for cars, that has viscous fluid with metal flakes in it, for which when u apply a current, it can make the fluid thicker or thinner, hence controlling the suspension... something like that
Bati
11-24-2005, 05:59 AM
actually, there is suspension out there, i think for cars, that has viscous fluid with metal flakes in it, for which when u apply a current, it can make the fluid thicker or thinner, hence controlling the suspension... something like that
I've heard about that, but, how fast could be the viscosity switching? fast enough to change the shock performance in small track sections?...
Letīs read...
MikeT
11-24-2005, 08:51 AM
A couple years back there was a ME (mechanical engineering) senior here, who for his senior design project, designed a bike suspension system around that idea (I believe)... don't have much info about it though. It would be interesting to research it further, but I'm already on another design team (CVT for a bike :drool: )
Bati
11-24-2005, 12:46 PM
A couple years back there was a ME (mechanical engineering) senior here, who for his senior design project, designed a bike suspension system around that idea (I believe)... don't have much info about it though. It would be interesting to research it further, but I'm already on another design team (CVT for a bike :drool: )
Oh, yes. There were roumors about the first Honda prototypes were on a CVT platform.
.... and about the magnetics, it may be closer to real than i guess
it's almost done (http://www.writing.eng.vt.edu/me5984/poynor.pdf)
MikeT
11-24-2005, 08:39 PM
ahh haha, i go to Virginia Tech! thats too funny:love:
Fulton
11-24-2005, 08:56 PM
new the 2006 white brothers XC fork use a magnetics for their SPV valve. on the newer corvette's, there is are iron particles in the shock fluid, and running a current through it changes the viscosity instantly
MikeT
11-24-2005, 10:21 PM
awsome, so whoop there it is.

crazy engineers man, CRAZY:cool:
Bati
11-25-2005, 06:19 AM
new the 2006 white brothers XC fork use a magnetics for their SPV valve. on the newer corvette's, there is are iron particles in the shock fluid, and running a current through it changes the viscosity instantly
Yes, but the WB isn't magnetic fluid, it doesn't change viscosity. It's just a magnet in the valve wich makes it works like an on/off switch... better the floodgate.
And about the Corvette, right, that's the same principle i'd like to see on a bike... the same as in '90s F1
Bati
11-25-2005, 06:38 AM
ahh haha, i go to Virginia Tech! thats too funny:love:
Great, now i'm finding out about some e-learning programs at VT.
Good luck !
ALEXIS_DH
12-04-2005, 06:42 PM
I've heard about that, but, how fast could be the viscosity switching? fast enough to change the shock performance in small track sections?...
Letīs read...


almost instantly.
i saw a demo of that a while ago.

my jaw dropped at first. it went from almost no damping, to hydraulic lock out almost instantly.
Ascentrek
12-07-2005, 09:46 AM
actually, there is suspension out there, i think for cars, that has viscous fluid with metal flakes in it, for which when u apply a current, it can make the fluid thicker or thinner, hence controlling the suspension... something like that

FOX has a pro line for SCORE/BAJA type racing. You can adjust the ride and suspension. Lots of extra's though... I don't need it for my bike... the simpler the be better.
jesusgatos
02-02-2006, 05:14 PM
FOX has a pro line for SCORE/BAJA type racing. You can adjust the ride and suspension. Lots of extra's though... I don't need it for my bike... the simpler the be better.
I'm pretty sure that Fox isn't using any type of magnetic shock fluid in their off-road shocks. I talked to them about it after I saw what Bose was working on (http://www.automobilemag.com/news/0410_bose/). They had already looked into it, but the fluid is too viscus and would overheat in an off-road application. It's pretty cool technology though. The only person/company that has any real experience/success with magnetic fluid in off-road shocks is Rod Millen (http://www.rodmillen.com/Military.htm) (and all of that was related to military contracts).