avoiding flats

[jacksonpt]

My Quest came with Hutchinson Quartz tires (23s). They seem fine as near as I can tell, but I have nothing to comare them to. Anyways... I seem to be getting a lot of flats - like 1 flat every other ride. I run them with mid-priced (not a big name brand) tubes at 95psi, as recommended to me by the shop - max pressure is 100psi.

Will running a slightly lower psi help reduce flats? should I pony up for better tubes? Or do these tires just suck?

[Wumpus]

Time for new tires.*







*Whenever I started getting a lot of flats, new tires was the cure. If you don't care about riding racer tires, give the specialized armadillo (http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=11177) tires a try.

[arboc!]

tubes dont matter at all, either way youll get flats, so just run the right tire pressure, and hope for the best.

[JRB]

Vredstein Tri Comps.

[DBR X6 RIDER]

Not sure of the quality of the tires, but are you checking both the rimstrip and the inside of tire before you close it up?
As far as lower pressure goes, that's an open invite for pinch-flats. I always fill the tire to the max suggested pressure.

I've been running Vittoria Rubino's for a few months now and have had no problems with them whatsoever - and I do alot of in-city riding.

[Wumpus]

As far as lower pressure goes, that's an open invite for pinch-flats. I always fill the tire to the max suggested pressure.

90 to 100 psi is plenty to keep from pinch flatting.** I've been running that for over 10 years now and don't remember ever getting a pinch flat and I'm no light weight(175 then; 220 now).

You are more likely to have a catastrophic blowout if you hit a sharp piece of gravel with your tires at a rock solid 140 psi.



**I never ride tires narrower than 25 unless I am racing and I don't race anymore.

[DRB]

My Quest came with Hutchinson Quartz tires (23s). They seem fine as near as I can tell, but I have nothing to comare them to. Anyways... I seem to be getting a lot of flats - like 1 flat every other ride. I run them with mid-priced (not a big name brand) tubes at 95psi, as recommended to me by the shop - max pressure is 100psi.

Will running a slightly lower psi help reduce flats? should I pony up for better tubes? Or do these tires just suck?

Check the rim strip and make sure its covering all the spoke holes. LOTS of times the rim strip can migrate leaving just a little bit of a spoke hole exposed. The will bring on the flats in masses.

How many miles do you have on the tires?

[ioscope]

Get some minions. LOL roadies

[splat]

I never Go by what the side of the tire says , I usually Run mine between 140 PSI ( 23 C) and 160 ( 20 C) . Pinch flats mean the pressure was not high enough

[LordOpie]

Vredstein Tri Comps.
Vredstein have served me very well.

[jacksonpt]

ok, some more info...

I've got 3 rides on the bike (and the tires) for a total of about 80 miles. The first ride was about 28 miles at 95 or 100psi - no flats. The second ride was about 11 miles at the same pressure with 1 flat. The last ride was 35 miles at 100psi and 1 flat.

Both flat have come on straight roads where I was spinning along in a good rhythm - not on a corner and not when I was really pushing - so it doesn't seem like they are pinchflats (assuming pinch flats on the road are the same as on the dirt).

To those of you who have mentioned various tires - am I to assume you are suggesting my problem is the tires?

No, I haven't checked the rim strip, but I do make sure the tires are clean before I put in the new tube.

[Wumpus]

Check the tubes to see where the holes are. You shouldn't be having tire troubles with that few miles.

You either have the rim strip issue or have a tiny piece of embedded glass in the tire that keeps flatting it.

[Wumpus]

Good read (http://www.ottawabicycleclub.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=137&) about tire pressures.

[jacksonpt]

Check the tubes to see where the holes are. You shouldn't be having tire troubles with that few miles.

You either have the rim strip issue or have a tiny piece of embedded glass in the tire that keeps flatting it.
FWIW, the holes are always on the outside of the tube (i.e. against the tire, not against the rim). I did find one small cut in the tire, but I've triple checked the rubber - I can't find any debris embedded in the tire.

[DRB]

ok, some more info...

I've got 3 rides on the bike (and the tires) for a total of about 80 miles. The first ride was about 28 miles at 95 or 100psi - no flats. The second ride was about 11 miles at the same pressure with 1 flat. The last ride was 35 miles at 100psi and 1 flat.

Both flat have come on straight roads where I was spinning along in a good rhythm - not on a corner and not when I was really pushing - so it doesn't seem like they are pinchflats (assuming pinch flats on the road are the same as on the dirt).

To those of you who have mentioned various tires - am I to assume you are suggesting my problem is the tires?

No, I haven't checked the rim strip, but I do make sure the tires are clean before I put in the new tube.


Don't forget to check the ball bearings. Its all ball bearings these days.

I got money on the rims strip.

[JRogers]

Check the rimstrip and all that, but I think my money is on the tires being the problem. I had a similar issue with a set of Conti GP 3000s that came on a Cannondale I bought a while back. I would get flats all the freaking time (by then end, it was maybe 1 per 30 mi or so) for no apparent reason. I bought new tires (Vredestien Fortezzas) and problem solved! I have since bought a new pair of Continental GP 3000s and have had good experiences with them. There was just something wrong with those other ones.

[dok9874]

Since we're on the subject of tubes, and me being fairly new to the sport (1 year), I have a question on tube sizes. I don't mean to sound like a total dork, but whenever I needed a spare, I'd just ask the shop for a new tube for my 700's and they'd give me a 700 x 18/23. Then a few weeks ago, a different shop gave me a 700 x 19-23, and looking at tubes on ebay, I see other sizes as well. What's the difference - what does the second set of #'s mean? I recently got a 19-23 and it seemed too small for the rim (couldn't get it to pop on). Does it matter what the second set of #'s is as long as I'm using 700's?

Thanks.

[JRogers]

Since we're on the subject of tubes, and me being fairly new to the sport (1 year), I have a question on tube sizes. I don't mean to sound like a total dork, but whenever I needed a spare, I'd just ask the shop for a new tube for my 700's and they'd give me a 700 x 18/23. Then a few weeks ago, a different shop gave me a 700 x 19-23, and looking at tubes on ebay, I see other sizes as well. What's the difference - what does the second set of #'s mean? I recently got a 19-23 and it seemed too small for the rim (couldn't get it to pop on). Does it matter what the second set of #'s is as long as I'm using 700's?

Thanks.

The first number is the size of the rim, the second is the approximate tire width it's good for- 19 to 23 mm tread width. If you had a tube that was really too small then you probably had a tube for a 650 rim or something like that.

Different makes and models will vary in the widths they suggest but, for the most part, I think it doesn't matter too much. On my cyclocross bike, I will run the same tubes in a 700x20 tire as I will in a 700x32. On my DH bike, I run standard XC tubes (26x1.8-2.2 or something) in 2.7 tires. In my experience, it makes little difference. It's probably a bad idea to use a tube for a really big tire in a small one, though. Even though it should theoretically be a bad idea to do the reverse, in my experience, it makes little difference.

[jacksonpt]

I checked the rim strip - looks good, everything is as it should be.

So, I decide that I'm tired of puncturing brand new tubes every ride, so I take the new tubes out of both tires, carefully inspect the tubes, rims and the tires, and replace the new tubes with already punctured and patched tubes. I inflate both tires to 100psi, and begin taking my tools back out to the garage. I hear a loud pop, go back inside to find my front tire flat, with a good sized rip in the sidewall. Now, keep in mind that to this point I've had no problems with the front - both my flats have been in the back. I figure one of my patches gave out - nope, a new hole in the tube with corresponding hole in the tire.

so... my question to you is, WTF???




in case you couldn't tell, this is starting to piss me off.

[Wumpus]

Check where the rims are welded and make sure there aren't any sharp edges.

I've had tires blowout like you said when the tires didn't seat well. You air them thinking everything is OK then they pop off the bead and BAM! It's not an odd occurence, but I've never blow a hole in the tire.

[Wumpus]

Also, I air up the tire and then let the iar back out. Squeeze the tire all the way around to make sure the tube isn't caught between the rim and tire and then air up again.

[DRB]

You're going need an old priest and a young priest.....

[jacksonpt]

grrrr... this sucks. Screw the road - where's my Yeti... I'm hitting the dirt tonight.

[jacksonpt]

this is rediculous... another flat tonight. The LBS said it was "...bad luck... hutchinson tires aren't usually high mileage tires, but yours are still basically new. Must be road debris."

[Wumpus]

Are you marking the holes and then checking the tire at the spot it keeps happening because it really sounds like you have a piece of glass imbedded in the tire? I sometimes have to air up the tire and then check the tire from the outside if I can't find it on the inside.

Try switching the tires around --front to back.


Or you are just having terrible luck.

[Pau11y]

Jacksonpt, check to see if your brake is coming in contact w/ your tire. This will cause tire blowouts when the casing is weakened from the rubbing. Another trick is to fold up some very soft TP like you're going to wipe your ass, (a wad of cotton will also work sometimes), then run it on the inside of your tire casing. Sometimes it'll hook something on the inside of the tire casing, leaving a bit of it on something that's too small for you to see. If it doesn't leave anything, then look for tears on the surface of the TP as the invader might not be hooked enough to catch anything. I'm thinking it might be something on the inside of your tire...tiny wire from cutting the frayed end of your der cable off and it's in your tire, but too small to see. The other thing is look at the point where your tube is punctured. Is it on the tire side or rim side? Does it show signs of wear at or near the hole or is it a clean rupture. If there are signs of wear on the tire side, then it supports something small on the inside of your tire. If it's on the rim side, it's your rim strip or seam of the rim. What kind of rim strip are you using, the Velox thick cloth ones or some cheap electrical tape like ones? At 100psi, electrical tape will behave like a balloon. What kind of rim is it? Often when I build wheels, I'll take a fine file or sand paper and smooth out the seams (inside and out) if the rim isn't welded and machined. I've seen $60+ rims that have had rough joints. Plus, it make the braking surface smooth and even so it doesn't tear up your brake pads. Lastly on the wheel, even tho you have rim tape, look for signs that the tape has depressed and is running into spokes that's too long. Wheel builders can cheat by using slightly longer than necessary spokes. But, unless they shave off the excess that's poking out of the end of the nipple, it can cause issues later. If need, peel off the rim strip and replace w/ the thick Velox cloth ones and take a peek while it's off to see if excess spokes might be an issue.

Edit: I'm currently running some Michlin Pros and they're holding up very well at around 110-115#s. I'm running 25s because I go on dirt roads so often, but also have 23s.

[jacksonpt]

Since I know how the public is about unfinished threads, here's an update.

Spent some time yesterday going over things... brakes are not contacting the tire, a cotton ball showed no irregularities on the inside of the rim, rim strip looks to be fine. So today I took both rims with tires into my LBS, had them give everything a once-over. Said the front tire was shot (ripped sidewall from a blowout), which did not surprise me. Other than that, they said everything looked fine. They had no experience with those tires, but said that Hutchinson stuff is usually pretty reliable. I bought a Conti Sport 2000 to replace the ripped Quartz... so we'll see if that holds up any better. If so, I'll buy a second and retire the other Quartz to backup/emergency duty.

[DBR X6 RIDER]

Ripped sidewalls will get you EVERY time. Speaking of sidewalls, Conti's are kind of suspect of having weaker sidewalls than most tires. That could just be something relevant to Western WA and it's perma-moist climate.

Glad to hear that the problem is likely solved!:cool:

[jacksonpt]

Glad to hear that the problem is likely solved!:cool:
Hopefully. I'm riding in the morning... probably 30ish miles or so, so we'll see.

[jacksonpt]

So far so good with the conti - did 35 easy miles this morning, no problems. Still have my fingers crossed, but I also have a smile on my face after finally being able to complete a ride with no mechanicals.

[mattv2099]

First of all, 100 PSI is extremely low for road tires. If your tires say max PSI = 100 then get some better tires. They sound like some cheap POS tires that came with the bike. Good tires cost a lot, but it's worth it.

I run michelin pro race tires and have gotten 1 flat in the last 10,000 miles. I fill them to 120+ PSI.


Also, don't ride in the shoulder where there is a lot of debris. Watch where you are riding and make sure you don't run over gravel or glass.

[Wumpus]

First of all, 100 PSI is extremely low for road tires.

Not really. Depends on the size of the tire and weight of the rider. If you are running some skinny 20s then yeah that might not be wise. I have no issues with my 25s at 100psi.

[splat]

I agree with Matty2099 ! if I run my tires at 100 psi, I will garuentee a snakebite ! even with 25's

[jacksonpt]

Not really. Depends on the size of the tire and weight of the rider. If you are running some skinny 20s then yeah that might not be wise. I have no issues with my 25s at 100psi.
I weight about 180lbs, running 23s right at 100psi.

[chicodude]

I never Go by what the side of the tire says , I usually Run mine between 140 PSI ( 23 C) and 160 ( 20 C) . Pinch flats mean the pressure was not high enough



Good god man, You must be jarring yourself to death.

100 psi on 23's

[jacksonpt]

If your tires say max PSI = 100 then get some better tires. They sound like some cheap POS tires that came with the bike. Good tires cost a lot, but it's worth it.

I run michelin pro race tires and have gotten 1 flat in the last 10,000 miles. I fill them to 120+ PSI.
I know good tires are worth the money, you don't have to tell me twice. But I jsut don't have $100 to drop on tires right now (had some house expenses come up recently).

I'd love to be able to buy another Conti Ultra 2000 (http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=19669&subcategory_ID=5420) and be done with all this... anyone know anything about these tires? I know someone mentioned that conti's reputation is NOT for sidewall durability - anything else?

Know anything about the Michelin Axial Carbons (http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=12786&subcategory_ID=5420)?

[jacksonpt]

I'm pretty sure they aren't pinch flats. On my mtb, when I pinchflat, it's just a little slice in the tube... almost looks like it was cut with a utility knife. The flats I've been getting on my road bike are not like that... they are more like a hole was punched in the tube with a small screwdriver or something. Leads me to believe they are blowouts, not pinchflats. And none of the flats have come on a turn or from a bump, which I would think is when a pinch flat is most likely to occur.

[Wumpus]

Leads me to believe they are blowouts, not pinchflats.

You could have got a bad batch of tubes.

[splat]

I weight about 180lbs, running 23s right at 100psi.

I weight in at a 180 also and I'm running 140 PSI on 23's ( 160 when I run 20's )

[jacksonpt]

I weight in at a 180 also and I'm running 140 PSI on 23's ( 160 when I run 20's )
What tires are you running? I'm interested to know what the recommended max air pressure for your tires... seems like most are 110-120 psi. I know you said you ignore those, but...

[splat]

What tires are you running? I'm interested to know what the recommended max air pressure for your tires... seems like most are 110-120 psi. I know you said you ignore those, but...

Conti's, Michielin, Specilized, Huchition. I never read what the side wall says so I could not not say what they reccomend. I just know I put that Much pressure in them and I don't get snake bites any more. , well some times but very infrequently , I did get one on saturday which is the first one I can remeber in recent memory. only my 2nd road flat this year , andthe first was a piece of glass sliced my sidewall ruining tire and tube.

[DBR X6 RIDER]

Know anything about the Michelin Axial Carbons (http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=12786&subcategory_ID=5420)?
I rode those for a little while. They're sweet in dry conditions and I've had one withstand rolling over a broken bottle. That shocked my sh*t that it didn't even scratch the tire.
Buuuuuuuut, I found them to be slippery when wet...especially climbing. I only weigh 150lbs. soaking wet, so maybe they hook up better if you're sporting a few more pounds. :confused:

[Surly]

Ok...I haven't posted here in a long time. But I bought a new Jamis Quest on Sunday! I was really stoked. Until my second ride yesterday...when I flatted my rear tire.

It sounds like these tires may just suck. :sigh: Nothing better than having to spend money to replace brand new gear.

[jacksonpt]

Ok...I haven't posted here in a long time. But I bought a new Jamis Quest on Sunday! I was really stoked. Until my second ride yesterday...when I flatted my rear tire.

It sounds like these tires may just suck. :sigh: Nothing better than having to spend money to replace brand new gear.
Bummer dude. I've done a lot of reading over the last week or so about this and I haven't seen any evidence that it's a consistent problem. I have, however, read that people are having problems with the rear wheel coming disengaged. I'm not sure what they mean by that, but I had the rear wheel pull out of the dropouts on my first spin down the driveway - I assume that's what they are talking about. So... make sure that rear QR is super tight.

[Surly]

Really? Me too--I tightened it down last night after fixing the flat.

[splat]

What tires are you running? I'm interested to know what the recommended max air pressure for your tires... seems like most are 110-120 psi. I know you said you ignore those, but...

Well I Took a look tonight ! and What do you know Continential agrees with me :D

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/jgoeller/IMG_6872.jpg

[jacksonpt]

Just an update...

it seems like if I run 110-120 psi in the tires, I do fine. I'm not going to say that the problem is solved just yet (need more miles before I make that statement), but things look good. I'm currently running a Conti Ultra 2000 in the back at 115psi and the OE Hutch Quartz in the front at 110psi.