Applying the 888 Go-ride tuning article to a 66rc?

[Jayridesacove]

I realize there are slight differences between the forks, but would applying some of the same methods work for taking the springs out of the 66rc?

[Mattoid]

what are you trying to do jay?

[Jayridesacove]

Even with 10wt oil, I still get the crazy top out when I pull up to bunny hop or do a manual.

I must not be measuring the oil right even though marzocchi says 220cc's of oil. *I measure 200ml in a measuring cup, then do the last 20ml of oil with a 5ml medicine dropper.

My last resort is to hit up the motorcycle shop for 15wt oil.

[ncrider]

that doesn't sound right. I'm no expert, but it's safe to say that if your getting a crazy top out (like it makes a pop sound) then something else is wrong. Did this happen before you started working on the fork or after?

[Jayridesacove]

It's a new fork, I got it a week before I went to Snowshoe for the opening.

The owners manual says I need to put heavier weight oil in that sucker. I'm going to try 15 wt oil and contact marzocchi if i'm still experiencing the top out.

Under normal riding it's fine, but as soon as I need to pull up to get the front wheel off the ground I just hear a quick clang sound. It's very annoying.

[OGRipper]

Hmmm, if adjusting the rebound won't fix that I'm not sure what to tell you, except that I prefer measuring the oil height as opposed to using the volume method. It's kind of a mystery to me and few people I know but the height method has always been better for me with my 888.

[Jayridesacove]

I'm thinking the same thing [oil height measuring vs going by actual oil volume] *and just experimenting some more with it.

[Zutroy]

It sounds like something isen't right in your rebound circuit, I've got a 888 with heavy springs on both sides on the middle preload setting and I've got the ability to set the rebound ungodly slow with 7.5W in it.

[Jayridesacove]

Hmm...I'm going to pickup some 15wt tomorrow and try. If not, I guess I got a dud out of the box. Kind of disappointing considering how new the fork is and it's only been ridden on for 2 days at Snowshoe.

[ncrider]

Yeah I agree with OG. The rebound adjuster should be able to take you from super fast topping out to slow as molasses even with the stock oil weight. Thats how my 888 works anyway.

[OGRipper]

Yeah I agree with zutroy, forgot to mention that I have no problem getting super slow rebound (and no top out) with 7.5 weight. And Zoke's were notorious for coming without enough oil last year, not sure if they fixed it.

Honestly it sounds more like not enough oil than the wrong weight, like the rebound cartridge is empty at the top of the stroke. Not sure what you weigh, but if you've got the right spring weight and you can bottom it out easily, you need more oil. Either that or something is wrong with your rebound damper.

I think we're all assuming you have tried to increase the rebound damping but if not, go try that right now, and cycle it a few times before you decide it's not working.

[Inclag]

Hmm...I'm going to pickup some 15wt tomorrow and try. If not, I guess I got a dud out of the box. Kind of disappointing considering how new the fork is and it's only been ridden on for 2 days at Snowshoe.

Either you don't have enough oil in the rebound leg or there is something wrong with the rebound circuit. I would re-measure the amount of oil you are putting in using the oil height method and top it off a little higher than recommend and if that doesn't work, then you should probably send it back to Marzocchi. The only fork that I know of that needed oil that heavy were pre-2003 Boxxers. Marzocchi's have always been known for having a nearly infinite range in rebound adjustment

[mike67]

Under normal riding it's fine, but as soon as I need to pull up to get the front wheel off the ground I just hear a quick clang sound. It's very annoying.

Same situation here with my 66. There was a thread on mtbr about the top out / clanking noise a while back. Several people had the same problem. I had a discussion with a marz tech about it, he said that you need to add a shim (home depot washer) between the top of the springs, and the spring retainer to silence the clanking noise. He said no harm will come from not adding the shim. Does this mean that they made the springs too short?

With the rebound set slow = no top out. with it set where I like it = clank!
Anyway, I've just been riding it and haven't got into sorting it out yet. I bought some washers for it, but haven't put them in.

[Jayridesacove]

Strange.

Mattiod has a new 66rc as well. The first time he rode it was at Snowshoe, just like me. He ordered his directly from Marzocchi. I ordered mine from Jensonusa. He's using 15wt oil and does not have the top out issue. Considering these are mass produced forks, I'm guessing I got one of the forks with the issue that mike67 mentions.

I hate talking about this stuff while I'm at work. Now all I want to do is go back home and work on my fork.

Sending the fork to marzocchi will be my last resort as I want to try to remedy this issue on my own by trial and error. *I will try experimenting with the oil levels and weight again. I will also try the shim thing. If those don't work I will guess there is an issue with the rebound and then send it into the big M.

I appreciate everyone's input/advice.

[Castle]

15wt I'd recommend against..... (15wt will be much harder to pull through the rebound cartridges, I personally would not want it in my fork, I believe marzocchi will recommend against it as well)

I'd use 7.5/7wt and that's all you will need, like eveyrone else said the fork will get really slow with the stock weight oil in it; so heavier weight oil wont do anything for you.

I would recommend just playing with oil heigths..... 800-227-5579 is zocchi's number.

you should be able to find out the heigth from the top (oil level) from them, if it's not on the website.

If you're rebound damper isn't slowing the fork properly that's a pretty good indication that something is going on with the cartridge. (that's considering the oil heigth is proper)

if you call em ask about washer deal someone else mentioned, makes plenty of sense to me... quite a few forks have weird spring noise/feel

[Jayridesacove]

heheh, Sean...

You get the DHX with the funky clanks.

I get the 66 with the funky clanks.

[Castle]

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107247&highlight=low+speed+compression+sleeve this isn't really that relative to your problem, but fork related none the less, pretty useful thread I think pics from go-ride on page 2 I think....

[mike67]

Strange.

Mattiod has a new 66rc as well. The first time he rode it was at Snowshoe, just like me. He ordered his directly from Marzocchi. I ordered mine from Jensonusa. He's using 15wt oil and does not have the top out issue.

As far as I know, all forks that come out of Marzocchi have 7.5 weight oil (125/150 golden spectro) with maybe the exception of the 888 works forks. I doubt there would be any difference in the springs that come in the fork no matter where the fork was purchased (so 15W oil may, or may not help). I suspect or e-spec they they made the springs too short. Can't think of any other reason they would recommend shimming them.

[OGRipper]

As far as I know, all forks that come out of Marzocchi have 7.5 weight oil (125/150 golden spectro) with maybe the exception of the 888 works forks. I doubt there would be any difference in the springs that come in the fork no matter where the fork was purchased (so 15W oil may, or may not help). I suspect or e-spec they they made the springs too short. Can't think of any other reason they would recommend shimming them.

Yeah the shim thing sounds weird, you might call 'zoke before you do much trial and error 'cuz you don't want to screw up the warranty. And yeah Golden Spectro 125/50 is the shizzz for my 888 and is the recommended aftermarket juice.

[Jayridesacove]

The only real trial and error I'm aiming for is just to fine tune the oil. I just got an email from Ronnie Dilan @ Marz. so I might contact him about it before I try any shimming.

[Jayridesacove]

Ok, after a good night's rest and time to think about it, here's what I've noticed:

With the top caps unscrewed and the stantions slightly pushed down. I notice there is noticeable play with the cartridge and spring. I can pull up the cartridge all the way up and see the difference with the spring.

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/jdcerna/cart%20001%20copy.jpg

Same goes with the other leg

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/jdcerna/cart%20002%20copy.jpg

And a look at both legs

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/jdcerna/cart%20003.jpg

Upon noticing this, I agree more with mike67 and his issue of shimming. I'm pretty sure that the spring is supposed to be flush with the cartridge and have no play in it. This is where I get the harsh top out, when I quickly unweight the front and pull the wheel up. Under normal operation, the fork feels fine. So I suspect that this near 6mm of play is to blame.

[BillT]

I've got the same issue with my 66RC as well...it performs just fine, but I get the clank. Let us know if anything works in quieting the clank.

[Jayridesacove]

I've emailed Ronnie at marzocchi and I'm waiting for what he has to say.

[mike67]

[QUOTE=Jayridesacove]Ok, after a good night's rest and time to think about it, here's what I've noticed:

With the top caps unscrewed and the stantions slightly pushed down. I notice there is noticeable play with the cartridge and spring. I can pull up the cartridge all the way up and see the difference with the spring.


Nices pics, that is exactly what I tried to explain. I got the advise to shim it out from a marz tech. So they are aware of this problem. I quess the question is, why didn't they make the springs longer? I'm sure the new re-designed 66 won't have this issue. My fork is up for an oil change, so I'll add the shims, and see if it corrects the clank!

[Zark]

I'm not sure shims is what they meant in this case.

I bet they thought the top out was a paper thin washer shim needed in between the cartridge and the cap to eliminate any play. This is what they've said for previous top out complaints. This would do nothing for springs that are 6mm short. Make sure with Marz. what they mean first.

[mike67]

I'm not sure shims is what they meant in this case.

I bet they thought the top out was a paper thin washer shim needed in between the cartridge and the cap to eliminate any play. This is what they've said for previous top out complaints. This would do nothing for springs that are 6mm short. Make sure with Marz. what they mean first.

I hear ya on the paper thin washer....that's what I was expecting to put in the fork. When I talked to the marzocchi guy about it, he specifically said " just go to home depot or similar, and pick up some washers that cover the diameter of the spring." I don't think adding a 6mm stack of washers is the right fix. When I opened up my fork a few months back I don't remember there being as much space as shown in the pics above....could be though???

Alright then, it's slow here at work, so I'll call again and see if I can get a better diagnosis. Be back soon!

[mike67]

Just got off the phone with Marzocchi. The tech said "Do Not Add The Shims" I was given some bad info the first time around. The space between the spring, and spring retainer is necessary for the optional travel change from 150mm to 170mm. When the top caps are closed there is no space between the retainer and spring, it is only visible when you open the caps. They recommend checking the oil volume - 220cc to 225cc per leg for my weight (175 - 180) try adding 5 psi to each leg.....if the problem continues after breaking in the fork, you may need to send it in. They recommend Golden Spectro 125/150 7.5w

[Jayridesacove]

K, taked to Ronnie at Marz. it's a likey problem with the rebound cartridge.

Marzocchi's out to lunch I have to call them back to get an RA number.

[BillT]

I am going to have the check the oil in my 66 as I believe the rebound cartridge is fine - when set to full slow, it takes about 98345938 seconds for it to rebound, but when I set to where I like it, maybe 5 clicks in from full fast, I get a clunk when I quickly unweigh the front wheel (i.e. pulling up to wheelie), but I typically don't get it when I ride it on the trails.

[Jayridesacove]

Well upon more inquiry on my fork with Castle. He said the rebound should be super slow with the 10wt oil in there. It wasn't, it's fast all the way through, even after going through the settings on the rebound knob.

This was all before I called Ronnie at Marz. and when I was on the phone with him, he also wanted to know if I'd tried all the rebound settings, which I have.

[leprechaun]

What's hard to understand is that there is a c clip in the bottom of the stanction that everything rests against when the caps are threaded down.So there is no spring play when the caps are tight.Either slow down the rebound via the topcap or the rebound cart is bunk.

[Jayridesacove]

When I talked to Ronnie, he brought to my attention that the cartridge and spring will look like my pictures when they are unscrewed from the fork.

We've already figured out it's the rebound.