Diabolus or Saint? [Archive]

slcpunk21

06-07-2005, 04:44 PM

Can I run my XT with a Saint?

Nope sure can't it isn't saint... sorry, wont work. ( :rolleyes: oh wait.. they haven't made everything proprietary yet)

Just kidding.. your XT front der will work just dandy with the saint cranks.

I'm an anti shimano person, but honestly my saint cranks are freakin nice. One bonus I have noticed is that I like the feeling of 100mm BB shell on bikes, and I have a 73mm on mine, but with the external bearings and super thick cranks it feels stupid close to how a 100mm BB feels with ISIS cranks.

I have no riding info on the raceface, other than they look dead sexy too!

As stated earlier... flip a coin...

bc6

06-07-2005, 07:03 PM

Saint cause theyre 100grams lighter

jackalope

06-07-2005, 07:09 PM

If you're generally a 'good' person, I'd go with the saints and paint them rootbeer...

If you're a 'bad' person, I'd go with the Diabolus and paint them pink (it's the new black)...

;)

Actually, I have a set of Diabolus cranks, and they're superb...Like the pinch bolt design of the Saints a little better (as my cranks did loosen up once, but just a little play which was solved by *gasp* tightening the 8 mm bolt). However, I've also seen (not e-hearsay) several bad batches of outboard bearings on XT cranks (i.e. the seals keep water out about as well as Steve Peat keeps himself out of bars) and read about some similar stories regarding the Saints - although it seems those are isolated incidents...The Diabolus offers the spacer system which allows you to adjust for chainguides and improve the driveline - pretty neat feature IMO...Diabolus also have the steel insert threads for the pedals, but I think the Shimanos have those now as well...I'd say they're about equal in burliness and stiffness, so I think it comes down to how important the chainline spacers are to you and whether or not you actually check you bolt tightness every few months...If the spacers aren't a big deal and you never look at your cranks after install, then the Saints seem like the way to go...Otherwise, Diabolus...

Changleen

06-08-2005, 05:48 AM

You have too much time on your hands if you worry about this crap.

DHS

06-08-2005, 12:56 PM

hm, i've held the saint and the diablous in my hands and the saint feels wayyy heavier.
i'd still say diablous. cause everything on it is replacable. the saint spindle is apart of the arm. it breaks you need new arm and such.

sleepinggiant

06-08-2005, 05:22 PM

it breaks you need new arm and such.
I would love to see someone break saint cranks. Those things are so fvckin' strong.

arboc!

06-08-2005, 06:37 PM

my friend just bought cranks for his steelhead.... those things are facking sick, i think i may kill him and covit his cranks...

Castle

06-08-2005, 11:36 PM

http://www.raceface.com/components/cranks/diabolus-crank.htm# click on backstage and then test lab

arboc!

06-08-2005, 11:54 PM

why didnt they give numbers to show that their cranks failed past the point of failure on the saints?

MtnbikeMike

06-09-2005, 12:30 AM

why didnt they give numbers to show that their cranks failed past the point of failure on the saints?

Because....they don't want to lie ;)

What I found funny was the Saint cranks he was holding lacked the bb axle.

DHS

06-09-2005, 06:53 AM

I would love to see someone break saint cranks. Those things are so fvckin' strong.
or if you mess up a install you can get a new axle put in on the raceface. you have to buy a whole new crank for the saint.

Dogboy

06-09-2005, 08:19 AM

or if you mess up a install you can get a new axle put in on the raceface. you have to buy a whole new crank for the saint.
How in the hell could you mess up installation on a pair of Saint cranks? They are idiot proof. Slide the right side arm/spindle through the BB, slide on the left arm (it will only go on one way-can't misalign), load the bearings with the end cap, and tighten the pinch bolts.

me89

06-10-2005, 11:39 PM

dude people are dumb. plain and simple. you would be suprised at what people can mess up. just walk into a bike shop and look at what he mechanic is working on (unless he's building a bike thats going on the floor).

ohh and go diablous all the way. raceface is just better looking and you get the kool flames. saints are plane dull and gray. noone likes to be boring and unoriginal. and diablous are stronger.

sama1ter

06-10-2005, 11:49 PM

http://www.raceface.com/components/cranks/diabolus-crank.htm# click on backstage and then test lab

umm yeah, wow nice comparison, im sure diabolus break too.

syadasti

06-10-2005, 11:51 PM

These new cromo 2-piece cranks - light as saint, twice as stiff - SRP $225 :D

http://img.timeinc.net/bmx/content/images/sxcrankimage/image1.jpg

Supercross was working on a new set of cranks that are supposed to be half a pound lighter than traditional Profiles and twice as stiff as Shimano's Saint cranks.

http://www.bmxonline.com/bmx/biz/article/0,15737,1068954,00.html

Fonzie18

06-11-2005, 12:04 AM

ohh and go diablous all the way. raceface is just better looking and you get the kool flames. saints are plane dull and gray. noone likes to be boring and unoriginal. and diablous are stronger.

Plain dull and grey they may be but unoriginal they are not. The Shimano Hollowtech II system was in place before RaceFace/Truvativ/FSA released/copied the ouboard-bearing design.

I have a set of SAINT cranks on all my bikes. The oldest one being almost 3 years old, it still performs as well as the day I installed them.

syadasti

06-11-2005, 12:15 AM

Plain dull and grey they may be but unoriginal they are not. The Shimano Hollowtech II system was in place before RaceFace/Truvativ/FSA released/copied the ouboard-bearing design.

Sonny, Shimano doesn't have any original thoughts period - the crank system was around 10 years before Shimano had them on the market...

Sweetparts had their steel 2-piece version (sweetwings) in the mid nineties with external outboard bearings - they weighed 5 grams more than "innovative" "new" xtr (haha, shimano innovate - yeah right!). They were some of the stiffest cranks you could buy then - I had a pair on my 95 Marin Indian Firetrail. I traded them to a LBS owner in 97 or 98 for free brand new interloc tubular steel cranks when I got a frame they wouldn't fit. They also had a ti version, but I don't remember the weight. They were very labor intensive, had some teething issues, and Sweetparts went out of business :(

http://www.ce-design.com/sweet/home.gif (http://www.ce-design.com/sweet/)

arboc!

06-11-2005, 12:16 AM

i want to buy some profile racing cranks.... mmmmm chrome

Fonzie18

06-11-2005, 12:31 AM

Sonny, Shimano doesn't have any original thoughts period - the crank system was around 10 years before Shimano had them on the market...

Sweetparts had their steel 2-piece version (sweetwings) in the mid nineties with external outboard bearings - they weighed 5 grams more than "innovative" "new" xtr (haha, shimano innovate - yeah right!). They were some of the stiffest cranks you could buy then - I had a pair on my 95 Marin Indian Firetrail. I traded them to a LBS owner in 97 or 98 for free brand new interloc tubular steel cranks when I got a frame they wouldn't fit. They also had a ti version, but I don't remember the weight. They were very labor intensive, had some teething issues, and Sweetparts went out of business :(

http://www.ce-design.com/sweet/home.gif (http://www.ce-design.com/sweet/)

Ok...
The sweetparts cranks were great, there are 2 sets sitting in my shop and I still look at them and think of how far ahead of it's time they truely were. Even though they were one of many outboard-bearing design bottom brackets that were available before my time ( I guess I was like 5 years old back then) they were not very successful because of their flaws. Shimano being the inovative company that they are, decided to bring the design back and perfect it...which they did when they released the Hollowtech2 system. Trust me, they were aware of previous designs. I guess what I was trying to say is that the Hollowtech II came before X-types and Mega-Exos of FSA and RAceface.

As for Shimano not having original thoughts.....I won't get into that :dancing:

Rik

06-11-2005, 06:19 AM

Saint might not have as much fine-tuning adjustment, but the pinchbolt setup is superior, and the whole system is idiot-proof.
CNC cranks belong in the 90's... forging is where it's at.

Dan-Rides-Bikes

06-11-2005, 01:32 PM

http://www.bikepro.com/products/cranks/bullseye.html

and bullseye supercede them all

:nopity:

RobsterCrw

06-11-2005, 02:00 PM

Who cares about who came up with what? I got saints because it cost me $50 less and they are a little lighter. The Race faces look really pimp but the Saint single also looks sick. The double ring saint doesn't look that great.

Watching that test video I was pretty impressed with the force it took to bust the saint cranks. I mean my saints are stiff, they don't bend like they did in that video from your average 6' drop. That took a lot of force.

As long as there are no flaws inherent in the design, there is no big reason to love or hate either the saints or the raceface. They both go above and beyond. I'm not a fan of shimano, I recently ditched their brakes, shifters, chain, and rear derailuer for Hope and SRAM gear, respectively.

seismic

06-11-2005, 02:12 PM

Personally I love the Saints....plain and simple and will not let you down......I think they work awesome !

syadasti

06-11-2005, 05:11 PM

http://www.bikepro.com/products/cranks/bullseye.html

and bullseye supercede them all

:nopity:

Bullseye did not have external bearings, were heavier, and I am sure there were other BMX 2-piece cranks before bullseye...

skinny mike

06-11-2005, 05:33 PM

Plain dull and grey they may be but unoriginal they are not. The Shimano Hollowtech II system was in place before RaceFace/Truvativ/FSA released/copied the ouboard-bearing design.

I have a set of SAINT cranks on all my bikes. The oldest one being almost 3 years old, it still performs as well as the day I installed them.
didnt saint stuff come out in 2003? so how could the cranks be 3 years old?

TtotheJ

06-12-2005, 01:42 AM

http://www.raceface.com/components/cranks/diabolus-crank.htm# click on backstage and then test lab

That has got to be one of the coolest jobs, I mean you get to break stuff all day. I don't really care either that they don't give any numbers or show their stuff breaking cause I'm sure its just as strong.

Oh and I'd go with the Diabolus over the Saints because they engineer, manufacture, and test their stuff in the coolest city in the world IMO.

seismic

06-12-2005, 04:16 AM

...the coolest city in the world ? Are you buying products based on the city in which they are made ?

MDBullit

06-12-2005, 07:36 AM

If you're a 'bad' person, I'd go with the Diabolus and paint them pink (it's the new black)...

funny that you should mention that, since I have owned a few sets, one of them black, and the anodizing on that one faded so the inset part of the left arm was pink. Not sure why, maybe the sun did it. But it's pink now.

Turd Ferguson

06-14-2005, 09:11 PM

The Saints suck. Shimano sucks. All cranks Shimano makes SUCK. I ran the XT's for 3 years and warranteed them every year for a loose spider. They had no problem giving me a new(2000) set every year-I guess there is a warehouse full of 'em. I've had friends turning in their Saint cranks in as well. It's not a solid spider-arm like Race Face's. Less points to fail. I guess if you weigh less than 160 they might work. I am running the R/F and lovin' it.

arboc!

06-14-2005, 09:33 PM

well i would say the xts are just a bit lower than the saints.... and your lame ass generalizations arent wanted here.... please return to pinkbike

Turd Ferguson

06-14-2005, 11:11 PM

Hey, sorry to hurt your feelings. I was trying to be as specific as possible. Have you ever had warranty issues with the big 'S'?
If not--
Shut the f__k up!

p.s. I'm not trying to be a di#k, I was just watching Chappelle's show.
The one where he was 'Black Bush'. He told the U.N. to sanction him with their army---whoops, no army. So shut the f__k up!

Kanter

06-14-2005, 11:17 PM

arboc!

06-14-2005, 11:27 PM

Hey, sorry to hurt your feelings. I was trying to be as specific as possible. Have you ever had warranty issues with the big 'S'?
If not--
Shut the f__k up!

you really cant base an opinion on saint cranks on your experiance with xts. have you even riddin a set?

Rik

06-15-2005, 04:47 AM

The Saints suck. Shimano sucks. All cranks Shimano makes SUCK.Whinge whinge whinge, cry cry cry. All based on your experiences with an older model XC crank. Keep up the good work :thumb:

seismic

06-15-2005, 05:54 AM

Why do people critisize Shimano products based on that they do not want to dash out money for the right category of cranks ? If I notice that Alivio cranks are soft riding DH am I then entitled to claim that DA and Saints are soft as well ?

Dogboy

06-15-2005, 09:54 AM

Sonny, Shimano doesn't have any original thoughts period - the crank system was around 10 years before Shimano had them on the market...

Sweetparts had their steel 2-piece version (sweetwings) in the mid nineties with external outboard bearings - they weighed 5 grams more than "innovative" "new" xtr (haha, shimano innovate - yeah right!). They were some of the stiffest cranks you could buy then - I had a pair on my 95 Marin Indian Firetrail. I traded them to a LBS owner in 97 or 98 for free brand new interloc tubular steel cranks when I got a frame they wouldn't fit. They also had a ti version, but I don't remember the weight. They were very labor intensive, had some teething issues, and Sweetparts went out of business :(

http://www.ce-design.com/sweet/home.gif (http://www.ce-design.com/sweet/)
ummm, you should get some more knowledge before posts like this. Shimano has innovated more in the bike biz than any other company, period. I'm not a Shimano fanboy, but have you ever heard of index shifting? You know, like when you shift and it clicks and you are in the next gear. Shimano. Or trigger shifters or integrated brake/shift levers (road and mountain) or cassette hubs or hollow-forged cranks, etc. Now the Hollow Tech 2 cranks aren't original and they surely didn't borrow design from the POS sweet wings cranks. It mostly came from Bullseye cranks.

syadasti

06-15-2005, 03:41 PM

ummm, you should get some more knowledge before posts like this. Shimano has innovated more in the bike biz than any other company, period. I'm not a Shimano fanboy, but have you ever heard of index shifting? You know, like when you shift and it clicks and you are in the next gear. Shimano. Or trigger shifters or integrated brake/shift levers (road and mountain) or cassette hubs or hollow-forged cranks, etc. Now the Hollow Tech 2 cranks aren't original and they surely didn't borrow design from the POS sweet wings cranks. It mostly came from Bullseye cranks.

I'm sorry man, but I've grown up mountain biking as it evolved from the late 80s. The Sweetwings were the first 2 piece cranks with external bearings and they were the stiffest on the market at the time. They were way ahead of their time. They were so good that the owner of the LBS I used traded me a brand new pair of cranks and BB he did not have in stock so he could put the sweetwings on his road bike...

yeehaarider

06-15-2005, 04:19 PM

id go for diabolous

Turd Ferguson

06-15-2005, 05:17 PM

He is sort of right. Shimano will warrenty anything. But on the other hand its a big company. I thought I heard that people had problems with the Diabolus getting loose.... ;)

Both are quality cranks and many people have never had problems with even XTs. It all depends on how you ride.

I'm sorry, I thought I made myself clear. Let me spell it out. Shimano knows it has a flawed product. In 2000 they came out with the hollow tech cranks(+or- a year for those that know all). These cranks failed. A lot. So they redesigned them for '01 with a threaded nut so you could replace the spider WHEN it fails. This process was not cost effective for them so they changed back to a pressed spider in '03. Right aroung this time I was fed up with their crap--proprietary designs(Saint hubs and deraileurs, the introduction of rapid fire brake levers, and discs that only work with their hubs.) Then the Saint came. I thought it was a good design until I found out about the pressed spider. They know that it is not as strong and yet they sell it to us because ? I don't know.

Hey enough of the bs. Most of my facts are based on assumption. But I do have experience with Shimano and Race Face and do know the difference.
If you want good strong cranks-buy R/F.

Guys, don't take this sh!t personally.
It's just a discussion. All hail the big S

skajumper

06-16-2005, 05:56 AM

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but why are you upgrading. In my humble, non super-gnar core hucker opinion, the hussafelts cope well with most downhill applications. Is there something so wrong with saving money and riding till it breaks?

arboc!

06-16-2005, 03:06 PM

well cranks breaking is kind of a bad one, you could fack up the bb shell, or bb it self, you could get your pedals stuck in them forever (this happens any ways if youve got husselfelts), and not to mention the huge blow to the testicals you could suffer when you snapp you cranks off.

me89

06-16-2005, 05:56 PM

Is there something so wrong with saving money and riding till it breaks?

yeh there is kinda. well your 5 miles into a 10 mile ride. ohh **** your cranks just snap in two, or just come flying off. ohh well theres no way to fix that problem on the trail looks like your walking. thats a major concern. and also dude when cranks break you will break. plain and simple.

ohh and Turd im sure you dont mean harm but dude just lighten up a little. calm down and discuss things ratioally without getting pissed. :)

Kanter

06-16-2005, 09:45 PM

The idea of RF (cranks and spider) being one piece is far more superior than the Shimano cranks being two piece. All XT, XTR, and Saint cranks eventually creak. The crank and spider just make noise. Its that simple. We have had numerous riders in our area warrenty XT and Saint cranks.

syadasti

06-16-2005, 11:48 PM

^^^Uh-oh, real world feedback instead of e-spec :devil:

Kanter

06-17-2005, 09:29 AM

^^^Uh-oh, real world feedback instead of e-spec :devil:

My buddy only ran his Saints 3-4 months and they started to creak terribly. Shimano warrentied them. On numerous rides out of state and talking to people, Saints creak after only a few months. Everyone knows that XT and XTRs creak. I have had XT on a few bikes and they all creaked between the cranks and spider after only a few months. They might not be weak but they sure make a lot of noise.

RF ALL THE WAY!!!!

syadasti

06-17-2005, 07:01 PM

My buddy only ran his Saints 3-4 months and they started to creak terribly. Shimano warrentied them. On numerous rides out of state and talking to people, Saints creak after only a few months. Everyone knows that XT and XTRs creak. I have had XT on a few bikes and they all creaked between the cranks and spider after only a few months. They might not be weak but they sure make a lot of noise.

RF ALL THE WAY!!!!

I usually can't tell if its my ****ty (but comfy) WTB saddle or my XTs that are creaking. Does not bother me much though and I prefer my XTs over my Atlas cranks so far :D

Kanter

06-17-2005, 08:02 PM

What was wrong with your Atlas cranks?

syadasti

06-17-2005, 08:05 PM

What was wrong with your Atlas cranks?

No problems so far. One bike has Atlas (had them for about a year) and another has XTs (usage about 1.5 months). Just prefer the pinchbolt mount. I think the creaking on my XT bike is just the saddle honestly, but I haven't bothered to check carefully. I know the saddle rails are very loose within the mounts on the saddle...

Kanter

06-17-2005, 08:23 PM

I hate creaks. It usually means something is loose, rubbing, or about to go wrong.

MtnbikeMike

06-17-2005, 10:44 PM

My XTR's don't creak. But then again, the only thing pressed is the axle :blah:

TtotheJ

06-18-2005, 04:25 PM

...the coolest city in the world ? Are you buying products based on the city in which they are made ?

No I would never buy parts based on where they were made. Sorry, saying the coolest city in the world was not a good explanation on why I would buy RF. I do know that RF tests their stuff on the shore and I can't think of a more extreme enviroment to tests components. So I guess I make my buying decisions based on knowing the company that made them tests them in the same conditions I ride in.

arboc!

06-18-2005, 05:32 PM

I hate creaks. It usually means something is loose, rubbing, or about to go wrong.
i know its a sh1tty crank, but my husslefelts have taking way more of a beating then they have any right to. they're still totally solid, and im hard on my bike

MtnbikeMike

06-19-2005, 12:00 AM

No I would never buy parts based on where they were made. Sorry, saying the coolest city in the world was not a good explanation on why I would buy RF. I do know that RF tests their stuff on the shore and I can't think of a more extreme enviroment to tests components. So I guess I make my buying decisions based on knowing the company that made them tests them in the same conditions I ride in.

Well, Shandro does R&D for the Saint stuff, so I'd venture to guess that the Shimano stuff is tested on the shore as well.

TtotheJ

06-19-2005, 03:35 PM

Well, Shandro does R&D for the Saint stuff, so I'd venture to guess that the Shimano stuff is tested on the shore as well.

I know Shandro does R&D on the shore and I'm sure other companies have riders doing R&D on the shore as well. With RF though everything they produce is tested on the shore not just their hardcore components, so I feel they just make a better product all the way around.

Kanter

06-19-2005, 06:01 PM

ya WORD :) ;)

theFOOT

06-19-2005, 10:35 PM

i havent ridden either of them, but basing totally on looks, dude, the race face kick @$$, and since i had a diabolis stem on my old bike and loved it, i would go with diabolis, even though stems and cranks arew toally different, pluys i like the compatability of race face

stinkyboy

06-20-2005, 10:09 AM

i havent ridden either of them, but basing totally on looks, dude, the race face kick @$$

:stosh:

MtnbikeMike

06-20-2005, 10:46 AM

I know Shandro does R&D on the shore and I'm sure other companies have riders doing R&D on the shore as well. With RF though everything they produce is tested on the shore not just their hardcore components, so I feel they just make a better product all the way around.

Personally, I'd rather have a company test their products in the evironment of their intended usage. Testing everything in the same environment(in the case the shore), regardless of intended usage, is dumb(if what you say is true).

"Dude, my XC cranks can hold up on the shore." :nuts:

habitatxskate

07-02-2005, 10:25 PM

diablous

LokiLopez

09-07-2005, 10:39 AM

Sorry to bring this topic back up, but I'm still a bit undecided since I'll run my cranks on a hardtail(P2). Specialy because of the price here:
Diabolus - 403 USD
Saint - 260 USD

If they where in the same price range I would go RF, mostly because of the lifetime warranty. But since the Saint are alot cheaper they become more appealing. Still, I'm kinda of a newbie and from time to time I tend to put my cranks under severe stress(stupid mistakes on a hardtail make you pay the price).

The question is, has anyone been running Saint on a hardtail and abused them? Any problems/concerns?

Thanks :thumb:

SXtrailrider

09-07-2005, 05:35 PM

go with the diablos if you don't car aobut weight and you want a more compatable component saint if you have alot of money and wouldn't min paying more for a weeker but lighter parts

Kanter

09-07-2005, 07:53 PM

Every set of saint cranks where I live creak. Many have warrentied them and then they creak again after a few months. GO RF!@!!@##!!

LokiLopez

09-07-2005, 10:22 PM

Looks like I'll have to kiss the NS Leg Eaters goodbye at least for a while then... more 143usd kills my bugdet! :(

J5ive

09-08-2005, 06:43 AM

My saints dont creak- 8 months dh.

boostindoubles

09-08-2005, 05:56 PM

for what its worth, when i bought my bike they came with the husselfelts, and they've taken more abuse than i ever thought they could.

And another for what its worth (probably not much) a friend of mine who used to race single-A bmx, and makes frames and such for bmx/mtn bikes now, tells me that the new 'thing' in bmx racing is to run the saint series cranks on the bikes. but racing bmx and DH are alittle different. peace!

brony15

06-22-2007, 10:08 AM

aye aye there
I really like your Specialzed P.2 homemade bike, it's ace!!!!
I was just wondering if you or any one out there knows how to get the older P.2 bike from 2005 as for I am keen to buy one. There is none on ebay and was wondering if there is any shops in GB that may possibly have them.

Thanks

Calum