View Full Version : Hide Your Stash
Changleen
06-06-2005, 03:40 PM
The fascists are coming! Bet you hippies are gonna start giving a **** who Bush puts on the supreme court now!
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/06/06/us-pot050606.html
U.S. court finds pot illegal, even on doctor's orders
Sick people can't smoke marijuana in the United States, even under doctor's orders, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled.
Six of the court's nine justices supported the decision, which overturns laws passed in 10 of the 50 states that allowed people to grow their own pot and use it to treat various illnesses.
The case before the court involved two seriously ill women in California who were smoking marijuana, on the advice of their doctor, to relieve chronic pain.
Angel Raich, who lives in Oakland, suffers from ailments including scoliosis, a brain tumour, chronic nausea, fatigue and pain. She said she was partly paralyzed until she started smoking pot several times a day.
Diane Monson, who has a degenerative spine disease, grows marijuana in her Oroville backyard.
A California court ruled in 2003 that prosecution of medical marijuana users such as Raich and Monson under the federal Controlled Substances Act was unconstitutional. The Bush administration appealed that finding, and the Supreme Court's majority said on Monday the federal law was a valid exercise of Congress's power, "even as applied to the troubling facts of this case."
California's medical marijuana law, passed by voters as a proposition in the 1996 general election, allows people to grow, smoke or obtain marijuana for medical needs with a doctor's recommendation.
The states of Alaska, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, Vermont and Washington have medical marijuana laws similar to California's.
The legal question presented a dilemma for the Supreme Court's conservatives, who have pushed to broaden states' rights in recent years.
Justice John Paul Stevens wrote the majority opinion, which raised concerns about abuse of marijuana laws. "Our cases have taught us that there are some unscrupulous physicians who over-prescribe when it is sufficiently profitable to do so," he said.
Justice Sandra Day O'Connor filed a dissent, arguing that states should be allowed to set their own rules. "The states' core police powers have always included authority to define criminal law and to protect the health, safety and welfare of their citizens," she said. What a bunch of crap. All this will do is force more people to use more expensive prescription drugs for their problems. Hmm. Who will benefit from that?
HAHAHAHA!!!!
Poor stoners...
Silver
06-06-2005, 03:47 PM
I have to admit, I was wrong about Rehnquist and Thomas on this one.
I see Scalia still managed to worm his way over to the no side though...
Changleen
06-06-2005, 04:07 PM
HAHAHAHA!!!!
Poor stoners...So that's what it is about republicans - they just plain don't want other people to be happy. Lame.
So that's what it is about republicans - they just plain don't want other people to be happy. Lame.
We don't want people stoned and not working.
Changleen
06-06-2005, 04:22 PM
We don't want people stoned and not working.So it's fine to be stoned at work?
Silver
06-06-2005, 05:55 PM
So it's fine to be stoned at work?
Limbaugh pulled it off for years...
reflux
06-06-2005, 06:16 PM
We don't want people stoned and not working.
So it's also your opinion that those people with severe degenerative spine diseases can sit at a desk for 8+ hours a day or wait tables? Isht, I'm getting over a bruised rib and I didn't even want to stand up; I can't imagine the real pain that some people go through just living.
Lexx D
06-06-2005, 06:40 PM
We don't want people stoned and not working.
Didn't know working a 45-60 hour week counted as "not working". I'm such a lazy pothead.
We don't want people stoned and not working.
I smoke pot after work, I work my ass off the rest of the time.
Get bent fascist
valve bouncer
06-06-2005, 07:12 PM
VB- "So N8 why is pot illegal?"
N8- "Cos' it's bad"
VB- "Wipe that drool off your chin boy. Now, why is it bad?"
N8- "Cos' it's illegal"
N8 walks away confident in the knowledge that his impeccable logic is keeping the world safe for frotherdom. VB just sits in the corner slowly shaking his head.
MMike
06-06-2005, 07:15 PM
We don't want people stoned and not working.
Like we all are in Canada.... good thinkin'!!
We don't want people stoned and not working.
So all the people suffering from chronic pain and nausea will just hop right back to work if they put down the weed, right?
Brilliant.
Ciaran
06-06-2005, 08:38 PM
More turd fiesta from N8.
MikeD
06-06-2005, 08:49 PM
The decision noted that Congress hadn't perhaps made the best choice of laws, but that they were within their powers to regulate a commodity that had a national market. It's not the Supreme Court's job to decide which laws suck, just which ones are within the bounds of the Gov't's constitutional authority and which aren't.
Still, I don't get how the Federal laws trump state laws when it comes to a commodity produced and consumed entirely within a given state's borders. Then again, I'm not a supreme court justice... and federal drug laws DO apply within all the states (dealing with them as an illegal commodity, not just any commodity...)
MD
reflux
06-06-2005, 08:51 PM
More turd fiesta from N8.
Thanks!
Silver
06-07-2005, 12:25 AM
Still, I don't get how the Federal laws trump state laws when it comes to a commodity produced and consumed entirely within a given state's borders. Then again, I'm not a supreme court justice... and federal drug laws DO apply within all the states (dealing with them as an illegal commodity, not just any commodity...)
MD
The molecules of air that a marijuana plant being grown in California uses has at some point probably been in another state, therefore it happens to be interstate commerce.
You stoners can thank your 'recreational' use of the drug for the court's ruling. Everytime you toke, you take away some cancer patient's hope of pain relief.
Actually, it is illeagal to grow dope in your yard reguardless of its purpose. This is what the court ruled against, not access to MJ for the truely sick.
http://wid.ap.org/documents/scotus/050606raich.pdf
Like we all are in Canada.... good thinkin'!!
HAHA! True dat.
I'm just screwing with you stoners on here actually. I could care of less if you toke on your own time or not although you'd better not be on the road with a CDL or flying any plane that I'm on. Other than that... toke up!
:evil:
..and remember... there is no way to enforce a law everyone ignores anyway.
http://photos1.blogger.com/img/51/1402/640/stonedchihuahua.jpg
clancy98
06-07-2005, 08:25 AM
Hmm. Who will benefit from that?
Gee I'm not sure, but I bet I can guess.... :rolleyes:
Gee I'm not sure, but I bet I can guess.... :rolleyes:
The people who will benift are the dudes who sell the chit illeagally and those who launder the $ from it.
clancy98
06-07-2005, 08:48 AM
I was gonna say George W. Bush. (http://blamebush.typepad.com/blamebush/) But thats just cause I know Changleen's opinion (as do we all) all too well.
jacksonpt
06-07-2005, 10:05 AM
Can someone explain to me why pot is a better alternative to other pain meds? I mean for actual pain relief - or is this all a crock to make smoking legal?
The fascists are coming! Bet you hippies are gonna start giving a **** who Bush puts on the supreme court now!
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/06/06/us-pot050606.html
What a bunch of crap. All this will do is force more people to use more expensive prescription drugs for their problems. Hmm. Who will benefit from that?
Whatever.... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/07/AR2005060700284_pf.html)
scurban
06-07-2005, 10:19 AM
I'm just going to be pissed when the Fed gov't starts wasting valuable tax dollors to procecute people who have been granted the right by both the state they live in, and their doctor they see to smoke. Come on this is the real issue here.
You work hard, probably pay more then you want out of your paycheck to the federal government, now its going to be wasted investigating, and criminalizing people who have put a lot of time and effort into making something they believe in legal.
Weither you smoke pot or not, you should still be pissed that tax dollors are going to be wasted on this issue, rather then spent wisely on improving health care in America, or possibley education. Or better yet, a way to become less dependent on foreign oil sources.
The amount of money spent on on prosecuting Medical Marajuana will probably be peanuts in the whole scheme of things, however it will still be too much if you ask me.
Andyman_1970
06-07-2005, 10:24 AM
Can someone explain to me why pot is a better alternative to other pain meds? I mean for actual pain relief - or is this all a crock to make smoking legal?
:stupid:
Last night on the news one doctor was saying there was a "mountain of anecdotal evidence" (with the attitude of "come on you stupid judges get with the program").........since when do Dr's and scienctists anaylize the effectiveness of a medication based on anecdotal evidence. If weed is such an effective medication for pain, why is the AMA on the fence on the matter, why are there no conclusive scientific studies on the issue?
I'm just going to be pissed when the Fed gov't starts wasting valuable tax dollors to procecute people who have been granted the right by both the state they live in, and their doctor they see to smoke. Come on this is the real issue here.
You work hard, probably pay more then you want out of your paycheck to the federal government, now its going to be wasted investigating, and criminalizing people who have put a lot of time and effort into making something they believe in legal.
Weither you smoke pot or not, you should still be pissed that tax dollors are going to be wasted on this issue, rather then spent wisely on improving health care in America, or possibley education. Or better yet, a way to become less dependent on foreign oil sources.
The amount of money spent on on prosecuting Medical Marajuana will probably be peanuts in the whole scheme of things, however it will still be too much if you ask me.
Whatever.... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/07/AR2005060700284_pf.html)
clancy98
06-07-2005, 10:32 AM
it helps me with the crushing emotional pain of dealing with the douchebags on teh monkey
golgiaparatus
06-07-2005, 11:32 AM
America F*** Yeah
Comin To Save The World Again Yeah
America F*** Yeah
Alcohol Is The Only Way Yeah
Marijuana Your Game Is Through Cuz Now Youve Got To Answer To
America F*** Yeah!!!!
Damn True
06-07-2005, 11:35 AM
:stupid:
Last night on the news one doctor was saying there was a "mountain of anecdotal evidence" (with the attitude of "come on you stupid judges get with the program").........since when do Dr's and scienctists anaylize the effectiveness of a medication based on anecdotal evidence. If weed is such an effective medication for pain, why is the AMA on the fence on the matter, why are there no conclusive scientific studies on the issue?
A comment and a question:
I was listening to a local news radio station this morning and they were interviewing the Sheriff of Santa Clara County who said that one of the largest problems with the medical MJ thing is people using the scrip to buy weed then reselling it to buy actual medications. Hmmm, if weed works why buy vicodin?
Second, they said that there is no actual scientific peer reviewed study to show that weed is more effective than current pharmacuticals. I don't know if that is the case or not. Is it?
Ciaran
06-07-2005, 11:49 AM
Can someone explain to me why pot is a better alternative to other pain meds? I mean for actual pain relief - or is this all a crock to make smoking legal?
Personally, I have never found it to be an effective pain relief medication. What I have found through extensive testing both on the road and while I am flying planes is that it is highly effective in relieving NAUSEA. For cancer patients it means that they can have some pot before or after chemo when the nausea hits them bad and be able to eat. People with sensitive stomachs or people like me who take medication daily that upsets the stomach can have something that relieves nausea. The other thing I know is that it is highly effective in lessening the symptoms of Autonomic Dysreflexia. AD is something that happens to paralyzed people, especially quadriplegics. At one point in my life I was a live in aide to a quad. The guy would some out in full AD... sweating, spasms, nausea, just feeling awful. One hit off his bong and it all went away within seconds. (Literally). Pain relief? Maybe. Nausea releif? Most defenitely. N8 relief? Yeah but you have to smoke alot.
Silver
06-07-2005, 11:50 AM
:stupid:
Last night on the news one doctor was saying there was a "mountain of anecdotal evidence" (with the attitude of "come on you stupid judges get with the program").........since when do Dr's and scienctists anaylize the effectiveness of a medication based on anecdotal evidence. If weed is such an effective medication for pain, why is the AMA on the fence on the matter, why are there no conclusive scientific studies on the issue?
It's a schedule 1 drug. I'd guess you can't do double blind studies on the effectiveness because by doing so you'd be in possession of marijuana, and therefore be breaking federal law. Plus, by giving it to a patient, that would probably put the researcher up on distribution charges.
Second, they said that there is no actual scientific peer reviewed study to show that weed is more effective than current pharmacuticals. I don't know if that is the case or not. Is it?
My wife went through one very painful diagnostic procedure and one surgery for a torn disc. (discogram and IDET).
Weed was the only thing that would relieve the pain long term. A little a day kept the pain to a level where she could function enough to go to work. Other heavy pain meds were too harsh. Nobody can take vicodin for more than a few days with out wanting to hang themselves.
I don't think weed is for everyone, just like some people shouldn't drink. She could function very well with weed, if anything it made her hyper and even MORE productive.
I never smoke it, it puts me to bed immediately. Like I said, not for everyone.
It grows in the ground, it's an excellent renewable resource and it relieves pain and nausea. It's less harmfull than tobacco or alcohol - but we throw people in jail for it. Brilliant.
Andyman_1970
06-07-2005, 12:01 PM
It's a schedule 1 drug. I'd guess you can't do double blind studies on the effectiveness because by doing so you'd be in possession of marijuana, and therefore be breaking federal law. Plus, by giving it to a patient, that would probably put the researcher up on distribution charges.
Is morphine classified the same as marijuana (at least in it's illegal non-prescribed sense)? I have a hard time believing that because it's an illegal drug there is not some official legal way to conduct a study on it's effectiveness rather than rely on dubious anecdotal evidence.
Damn True
06-07-2005, 12:03 PM
Personally, I have never found it to be an effective pain relief medication. What I have found through extensive testing both on the road and while I am flying planes is that it is highly effective in relieving NAUSEA. For cancer patients it means that they can have some pot before or after chemo when the nausea hits them bad and be able to eat. People with sensitive stomachs or people like me who take medication daily that upsets the stomach can have something that relieves nausea. The other thing I know is that it is highly effective in lessening the symptoms of Autonomic Dysreflexia. AD is something that happens to paralyzed people, especially quadriplegics. At one point in my life I was a live in aide to a quad. The guy would some out in full AD... sweating, spasms, nausea, just feeling awful. One hit off his bong and it all went away within seconds. (Literally). Pain relief? Maybe. Nausea releif? Most defenitely. N8 relief? Yeah but you have to smoke alot.
Interesting. But I wonder if there arent other things available either herbal or pharmacological that would offer the same benefit?
Hypothetically speaking, if immodium (or something similar) controls nausea and dosent cause any other ill effects why use weed?
Andyman_1970
06-07-2005, 12:07 PM
It grows in the ground, it's an excellent renewable resource and it relieves pain and nausea.
Hemlock grows in the ground also but that doesn't mean it's good for you........:rolleyes:
Is morphine classified the same as marijuana (at least in it's illegal non-prescribed sense)? I have a hard time believing that because it's an illegal drug there is not some official legal way to conduct a study on it's effectiveness rather than rely on dubious anecdotal evidence.
No, heroin is schedule 1 though;). I'm not sure what class morphine falls into, but doctors would have no access at all if it were schedule 1. Schedule 1 basically proclaims this drug has no medical benifits what so ever. So you have a catch 22 with marijuana where you can't prove medical benifits since politics has already decided the matter for researchers. :(
Damn True
06-07-2005, 12:09 PM
My wife went through one very painful diagnostic procedure and one surgery for a torn disc. (discogram and IDET).
Weed was the only thing that would relieve the pain long term. A little a day kept the pain to a level where she could function enough to go to work. Other heavy pain meds were too harsh. Nobody can take vicodin for more than a few days with out wanting to hang themselves.
I don't think weed is for everyone, just like some people shouldn't drink. She could function very well with weed, if anything it made her hyper and even MORE productive.
I never smoke it, it puts me to bed immediately. Like I said, not for everyone.
It grows in the ground, it's an excellent renewable resource and it relieves pain and nausea. It's less harmfull than tobacco or alcohol - but we throw people in jail for it. Brilliant.
Well my father has had two pairs of vertabrae fused in two seperate procedures. He did have to try a number of different meds before he and his Dr. found one that didn't make him loopy, nauseous or an a-hole. His Dr. (the same guy that did Joe Montana's back surgeries) never suggested weed.
Your final comments are unproven, untested and highly debateable. If the pro-weed folks sober up and actually perform studies and prove it, I'll support it 100%, but anecdotal "evidence" will never get the stuff legalized for medical use.
Westy
06-07-2005, 12:13 PM
Interesting. But I wonder if there arent other things available either herbal or pharmacological that would offer the same benefit?
Hypothetically speaking, if immodium (or something similar) controls nausea and dosent cause any other ill effects why use weed?
When my mother was fighting cancer the nausea medication seemed to do little. The Docs seemed to be able to control all the other side affects except for the nausea. Spending the last weeks of your life puking your brains out is not a fun thing to do. If weed could actually control this (I don't know how affective it is) lawmakers are being irresponsible not making it prescribable because of stereotypes and a culture of fear based on stereotypes.
Silver
06-07-2005, 12:13 PM
Is morphine classified the same as marijuana (at least in it's illegal non-prescribed sense)? I have a hard time believing that because it's an illegal drug there is not some official legal way to conduct a study on it's effectiveness rather than rely on dubious anecdotal evidence.
Morphine is schedule 2, along with Cocaine (which would include crack), and meth and ritalin.
Marijuana is schedule 1, along with heroin, LSD, ecstacy, and a few other things I can't think of off the top of my head. Maybe GHB?
Cocaine of course does have a medical use as an anesthetic. I'm not aware of any medical use for crack, but there may be some administrative rule that prevents them from scheduling the drug differently.
Damn True
06-07-2005, 12:17 PM
Morphine is schedule 2, along with Cocaine (which would include crack), and meth and ritalin.
Marijuana is schedule 1, along with heroin, LSD, ecstacy, and a few other things I can't think of off the top of my head. Maybe GHB?
Cocaine of course does have a medical use as an anesthetic. I'm not aware of any medical use for crack, but there may be some administrative rule that prevents them from scheduling the drug differently.
....and for that you can thank Anhauser (sp?) Busch.
Interesting facts. Thanks, I wasn't aware of the different classification. I suspect that crack and coke are classified the same because they are derrived from the same plant. However, that does not explain why heroin is classified differently from other opiate based drugs. Hmmm confused :think:
Silver
06-07-2005, 12:18 PM
I know this isn't an objective link, but it seems to have the info we are looking for:
http://www.maps.org/mmj/
Westy
06-07-2005, 12:24 PM
....and for that you can thank Anhauser (sp?) Busch.
Interesting facts. Thanks, I wasn't aware of the different classification. I suspect that crack and coke are classified the same because they are derrived from the same plant. However, that does not explain why heroin is classified differently from other opiate based drugs. Hmmm confused :think:
The legal penalty differ greatly between crack and regular cocaine. Many attribute this to racist drug laws. In fact many drug laws can to tied to racism. Marijuana was perfectly illegal until it became popular for mexican immigrants in the southwest, same thing with coccaine. Coccaine was used extensively in medicines made for woman, it became illegal when it became popular in the black communites.
Edit: I hate to be a proponent of television but the history channels show on illegal drugs is quite enlightening and I doubt it could be considered a liberal information source.
http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=42997
Damn True
06-07-2005, 12:28 PM
I know this isn't an objective link, but it seems to have the info we are looking for:
http://www.maps.org/mmj/
I wonder if the outcome might have been different if the terms of the study had been different. It seems that they were seeking to study the effects of different forms of delivery of THC (smoking vs vaporization).
They have the cart ahead of the horse here. It seems that the pro-pot groups would have a stronger leg to stand on if they first proved the efficacy of the substance as a treatment for an illness, then debate method of delivery.
Damn True
06-07-2005, 12:30 PM
The legal penalty differ greatly between crack and regular cocaine. Many attribute this to racist drug laws. In fact many drug laws can to tied to racism. Marijuana was perfectly illegal until it became popular for mexican immigrants in the southwest, same thing with coccaine. Coccaine was used extensively in medicines made for woman, it became illegal when it became popular in the black communites.
Isn't potency a factor here as well?
Crack is essentially an intensified version of cocaine right?
Silver
06-07-2005, 12:38 PM
I wonder if the outcome might have been different if the terms of the study had been different. It seems that they were seeking to study the effects of different forms of delivery of THC (smoking vs vaporization).
They have the cart ahead of the horse here. It seems that the pro-pot groups would have a stronger leg to stand on if they first proved the efficacy of the substance as a treatment for an illness, then debate method of delivery.
How are you going to do it when you can't legally do a study without the government approving of the study? Seems like a bit of a catch-22.
edit: Maybe they were worried that if they couldn't show vaporization worked, then the whole point is moot? Personally, I don't want people in pain hooked up to oxygen lines having to pull out a zippo to light up. Sooner or later someone would go up in flames...
Westy
06-07-2005, 12:41 PM
Isn't potency a factor here as well?
Crack is essentially an intensified version of cocaine right?
I beleive the amount of active ingredient is lower but being smoked it hits the system faster. It all comes down to the fact that crack smokers tend to be poor and coccaine users tend to be wealthy.
clancy98
06-07-2005, 12:43 PM
Well since I can tell you that crack starts with coke, and it is cut with something, I would think that means generally not as intense. Shorter, quicker(maybe) high. Its also cheaper which is why it is so prominent in the areas it is.
I would agree that the way the laws are setup is probably racially biased but that may not be intentional, it could have to do with timing of when crack hit the ghetto and the rush to litigate about it. I am just talking opinion here, no research.
Something I hope someone can explain to me is if MJ is schedule 1, why is possession only a misdemeanor? And possession of schedule IV stuff (scrips) is a felony... Is the schedule stuff unrelated to the penalties?
Silver
06-07-2005, 12:48 PM
Something I hope someone can explain to me is if MJ is schedule 1, why is possession only a misdemeanor? And possession of schedule IV stuff (scrips) is a felony... Is the schedule stuff unrelated to the penalties?
State and federal laws have different penalties. Here are the federal penalties:
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/agency/penalties.htm
If you get picked up, depending on the state you are in, the penalties are different. You don't get picked up by a federal agent for a joint unless you happen to be a person of considerable interest, I'd imagine.
Damn True
06-07-2005, 12:55 PM
How are you going to do it when you can't legally do a study without the government approving of the study? Seems like a bit of a catch-22.
edit: Maybe they were worried that if they couldn't show vaporization worked, then the whole point is moot? Personally, I don't want people in pain hooked up to oxygen lines having to pull out a zippo to light up. Sooner or later someone would go up in flames...
That is exactly the point of my question. I'm wondering if they might have more luck in getting approval for a study to see if the stuff actually works as a medication as opposed to studying delivery methods. According to the site you linked NIDA does have the stuff and does distribute it to groups for studies. It seems that this particular study was disaproved perhaps on a lack of relative scientific merit.
Yikes, that might be a bit of a problem eh? A case of the cure being worse than the cold?
llkoolkeg
06-07-2005, 01:11 PM
I suspect that crack and coke are classified the same because they are derrived from the same plant. However, that does not explain why heroin is classified differently from other opiate based drugs. Hmmm confused :think:
To simplify, crack is concentrated cocaine, heroin is concentrated opium and hashish is concentrated cannabis. The DEA scheduling considers them different because medically, they are different. Even when the active ingredients are not concentrated and purified, the method of delivery makes a HUGE difference in the effects they have on the body, e.g. eating cannabis vs. smoking it.
Silver
06-07-2005, 01:33 PM
According to the site you linked NIDA does have the stuff and does distribute it to groups for studies. It seems that this particular study was disaproved perhaps on a lack of relative scientific merit.
Can you find an instance of the NIDA approving a study and distributing marijuana? I had trouble (lot of unrelated crap in the links.) I also hate reading green webpages.
I did find this though:
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3727
If a bill got introduced, it looks like the past policy was to not approve studies that had FDA approval. I don't know if that is still in effect.
Ciaran
06-07-2005, 01:38 PM
Interesting. But I wonder if there arent other things available either herbal or pharmacological that would offer the same benefit?
Hypothetically speaking, if immodium (or something similar) controls nausea and dosent cause any other ill effects why use weed?
When I met him the guy had been a quad for over 10 years. I asked the same question and he said that he had tried just about everything out there, and pot was the best.
The reason for not using immodium is that a) pot works faster. It relieves the nausea litterally within seconds. And B) I don't know what the hell chemicals are in Immodium, I at least know a bit about what's in pot. And I don't really want to support the pharm companies any more than I have to.
You are right about anecdotal evidence never convincing anyone. But untill the gov't takes it off of schedule 1 we'll never be able to test to know.
Weed is harmless... (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/07/nyregion/07cop.html?ei=5090&en=22e3a2254b9d1eed&ex=1275796800&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print)
Ciaran
06-07-2005, 03:44 PM
Weed is harmless... (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/07/nyregion/07cop.html?ei=5090&en=22e3a2254b9d1eed&ex=1275796800&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print)
You might as well blame the gun. BZZZZZT! Thanks for playing, N8. You lose. Please try again.
Westy
06-07-2005, 03:46 PM
You might as well blame the gun. BZZZZZT! Thanks for playing, N8. You lose. Please try again.
N8 is right. Weed causes drug crimes. Cars cause autotheft and pussy is to blame for prostitution.
Changleen
06-07-2005, 03:50 PM
N8's just pissed cos the cool kids never offered him any Pot when he was younger. Now they've all grown up to be lawyers and he works in construction...
N8's just pissed cos the cool kids never offered him any Pot when he was younger. Now they've all grown up to be lawyers and he works in construction...
Far from it... my best friend's oldest brother was a cool-cat stoner in back in the late 70's.
Now he is a toothless, homeless wreck of person who picks up beer cans along side the highway for a living. He says he wishes he never tied weed in the first place.
Yep... drugs are real cool!
:rolleyes:
Hey N8, here's a thought. Why blame drugs? If your a looser, your a looser.
Hey N8, here's a thought. Why blame drugs? If your a looser, your a looser.
Didn't start out that way... just got hooked/addicted and is paying for it.
Far from it... my best friend's oldest brother was a cool-cat stoner in back in the late 70's.
Now he is a toothless, homeless wreck of person who picks up beer cans along side the highway for a living. He says he wishes he never tied weed in the first place.
Yep... drugs are real cool!
:rolleyes:
I know alot of loser alcoholics that have never tried weed. Actually, most losers that I've met never smoked weed.
They drink alot.
Most of the weed smokers I know get alot done in a day, and they hold down good jobs.
You're friends bro is just a shmuck using weed as an excuse.
llkoolkeg
06-07-2005, 05:06 PM
Far from it... my best friend's oldest brother was a cool-cat stoner in back in the late 70's.
Now he is a toothless, homeless wreck of person who picks up beer cans along side the highway for a living. He says he wishes he never tied weed in the first place.
Yep... drugs are real cool!
Didn't start out that way... just got hooked/addicted and is paying for it.
What's my excuse, then? A stereotype is a stereotype and birds of a feather flock together. If you are a loser pot smoker, you will likely hang out with other loser pot smokers. For the most part, I choose to hang out with other married professional-type stoners(and non-stoners)...except for when I'm biking, at which time I slum and hang out with "two-wheeled locusts" and other forms of riff-raff. Know why? Because you don't have to be a stoner OR a biker to know how to have fun; you just have to be somewhat open-minded and willing to give others the benefit of the doubt even if you have been otherwise influenced to dislike "their type". I hate to say it, N8, but chances are pretty good that some of your own highbrow friends, associates and coworkers burn a little buddha from time to time w/o your knowledge and approval.
Changleen
06-07-2005, 05:08 PM
'Till me eyes a bleed...
HarryCallahan
06-07-2005, 06:02 PM
Last night on the news one doctor was saying there was a "mountain of anecdotal evidence" (with the attitude of "come on you stupid judges get with the program").........since when do Dr's and scienctists anaylize the effectiveness of a medication based on anecdotal evidence. If weed is such an effective medication for pain, why is the AMA on the fence on the matter, why are there no conclusive scientific studies on the issue?
Doctor's definitely look at anecdotal evidence, as do researchers. Sometimes that's how doctors figure out what does or doesn't work, or researchers get ideas on promising new fields. Medicine is still evolving, and good doctors are always reading, always learning. The AMA is pretty conservative; just the fact that it is on the fence about this topic means that a significant portion of its members think there is something to this.
I'm not saying I believe all the claims that the medical marijuana folks make. But from what I've read, the feds, largely through the DEA, throw some pretty significant obstacles in the way of research on this topic.
What's my excuse, then? A stereotype is a stereotype and birds of a feather flock together. If you are a loser pot smoker, you will likely hang out with other loser pot smokers. For the most part, I choose to hang out with other married professional-type stoners(and non-stoners)...except for when I'm biking, at which time I slum and hang out with "two-wheeled locusts" and other forms of riff-raff. Know why? Because you don't have to be a stoner OR a biker to know how to have fun; you just have to be somewhat open-minded and willing to give others the benefit of the doubt even if you have been otherwise influenced to dislike "their type". I hate to say it, N8, but chances are pretty good that some of your own highbrow friends, associates and coworkers burn a little buddha from time to time w/o your knowledge and approval.
You Sir, are an exception!
:thumb:
HarryCallahan
06-07-2005, 06:14 PM
Interesting. But I wonder if there arent other things available either herbal or pharmacological that would offer the same benefit?
Hypothetically speaking, if immodium (or something similar) controls nausea and doesn't cause any other ill effects why use weed?
From what I've heard, weed is more effective on nausea, perhaps because it is inhaled. I remember having the flu real bad when I was a kid, and not being able to keep anything down, not water, not nausea relieving syrup or pills.
I've take immodium for traveler's stomach and it makes you very constipated.
As far as pain relief, my vet told me something about treating animals that might explain something about people with chronic pain who use weed. he said if he is treating big dogs, he sedates them, using something that
physically knocks them out or at least makes them very placid. But those same drugs aren't effective on cats, and for them, he uses drugs that are "disassociative", that is the cat is fully functional physically, but doesn't understand what is happening to it. Perhpas weed has this disassociative effect for folks with chronic pain, not so much eliminating the pain as pushing it into the background.
Honestly, I am not surprised the the supreme court decision. It was what I expected, that they would assert the primacy of federal law over state(s). I am pleasantly surprised by Rehnquist and Thomas dissenting.
What is political, and congress should act on, is how marijuana is classified.
fluff
06-08-2005, 02:50 AM
More than 50% of all the people I have smoked weed with earn over $100k pa.
BSEVEER
06-08-2005, 03:01 AM
More than 50% of all the people I have smoked weed with earn over $100k pa.
That's cool, they must always have some good stuff then. :D
Changleen
06-08-2005, 05:21 AM
US$100K isn't much in UK Pounds... :D We get pretty good weed in the UK though, or at least it's easy to get pretty good weed. I used to have a choice between 3 varieties at most times, but the varieties availible would change all the time. It's alos pretty cheap in the UK compared to most places. The cheapest and best quality weed I've ever had (illegally - I'm not counting Holland) was in Canada or maybe Portland and the most expensive was in SF, although that was pretty damn good stuff too. So far over here in NZ weed is (comparative to a living wage) average priced and averagely good. I've only had had really good weed a few times here. That's fine with me. I used to smoke hash in college. Do any of you guys know who GLC are?
Hypothetically speaking, if immodium (or something similar) controls nausea and dosent cause any other ill effects why use weed?
well, immodium basically paralyzes your colon. it stops spasms & slows everything down. This is no good if there is actually something wrong with your colon, like inflammation, lesions, bacterial/viral infection, etc... Just maybe if you ate too many nachos & beers. I am not sure it actually works on nausea, it never has for me.
I have Chrohn's Disease & when I am flaring, cannabis is the only thing that makes me feel normal.
I have taken Vicodin, Darvocet, Morphine, & Loratab for pain which is no good because they stop my colon from processing anything & if the inside of your colon is inflamed & bleeding this is the last thing you need. Not to mention the long term damage these drugs do to your liver & kidneys. They also have adverse effects of your mental health. Withdrawal sucks ass.
I have also been given a lifetime script (more or less) for Lomotil which is like immodium but also has narcotic effects since it has the same chemicals in it as Demerol (ever flown before?). I cant take this. If i take one 5mg pill I am f*ked up & will vomit bile the next morning.
There is no cure, only strong chemicals like those mentioned above & a new drug that i get every 4 months called Remicade that is basically made from rat DNA & some other really nasty stuff.
You may think "well pot doesnt help cure the disease, it just supresses the symptoms". every drug i mentioned (plus the 2 others i take, that wont go into) does nothing to cure the disease....just the symptoms. its like taking an aspirin for a headache caused by a brain tumor.
the chemical cocktail I take helps but not as well as pot.
I guess what I am trying to say is fvck Bush & his moral crusading cronies.
(dont get me started on stem cell research)
...oh yeah & the mega-pharma-corp-blood-suckers too.
:mumble:
From what I've heard, weed is more effective on nausea, perhaps because it is inhaled. I remember having the flu real bad when I was a kid, and not being able to keep anything down, not water, not nausea relieving syrup or pills.
I've take immodium for traveler's stomach and it makes you very constipated.
As far as pain relief, my vet told me something about treating animals that might explain something about people with chronic pain who use weed. he said if he is treating big dogs, he sedates them, using something that
physically knocks them out or at least makes them very placid. But those same drugs aren't effective on cats, and for them, he uses drugs that are "disassociative", that is the cat is fully functional physically, but doesn't understand what is happening to it. Perhpas weed has this disassociative effect for folks with chronic pain, not so much eliminating the pain as pushing it into the background.
Honestly, I am not surprised the the supreme court decision. It was what I expected, that they would assert the primacy of federal law over state(s). I am pleasantly surprised by Rehnquist and Thomas dissenting.
What is political, and congress should act on, is how marijuana is classified.
I will have to find the article i just read, but it says what you are saying....
There are 3 ways to kill pain. being knocked out, dissociative, & physically taking away feeling. weed supposedly uses all three ways but enough so that it is not debilitating.
dhtahoe
06-08-2005, 06:40 PM
We don't want people stoned and not working.
Yo I had cancer four years ago. If it we not for weed life would have sucked. You try going DAYS without food because of the nausa. Pot was THE ONLY thing that would get me to eat. Yes I was stoned no I was not working, but FU I had cancer.
Ciaran
06-08-2005, 07:00 PM
Yo I had cancer four years ago. If it we not for weed life would have sucked. You try going DAYS without food because of the nausa. Pot was THE ONLY thing that would get me to eat. Yes I was stoned no I was not working, but FU I had cancer.
I think that's the best evidence presented yet.
Personally, if I could make the trade off I would quit smoking forever if people who need it could have it. (Yeah, I know. It's easy to make an altruistic statement like that.)
DHT, thumbs up on beating it. :thumb: I sincerely hope you never have to deal with anything like that again.
Yes I was stoned no I was not working, but FU I had cancer.
Typical cancerous liberal excuse.
:think:
Typical cancerous liberal excuse.
:think:
BTW, J/K.
Right on for kicking the cancer. Anyone who goes through that and lives has big brass balls.
dhtahoe
06-08-2005, 07:40 PM
I think that's the best evidence presented yet.
Personally, if I could make the trade off I would quit smoking forever if people who need it could have it. (Yeah, I know. It's easy to make an altruistic statement like that.)
DHT, thumbs up on beating it. :thumb: I sincerely hope you never have to deal with anything like that again.
Four years as of 5/18/05. One more year and I'm 95% in the clear. The same cancer took my grandmother 20 years ago because it was not treatable. Cancer research has come sooooooooooooooooo far. Just got a bad gean I guess. It on my dads side because he has it now too.
Damn True
06-09-2005, 11:54 AM
well, immodium basically paralyzes your colon. it stops spasms & slows everything down. This is no good if there is actually something wrong with your colon, like inflammation, lesions, bacterial/viral infection, etc... Just maybe if you ate too many nachos & beers. I am not sure it actually works on nausea, it never has for me.
I have Chrohn's Disease & when I am flaring, cannabis is the only thing that makes me feel normal.
I have taken Vicodin, Darvocet, Morphine, & Loratab for pain which is no good because they stop my colon from processing anything & if the inside of your colon is inflamed & bleeding this is the last thing you need. Not to mention the long term damage these drugs do to your liver & kidneys. They also have adverse effects of your mental health. Withdrawal sucks ass.
I have also been given a lifetime script (more or less) for Lomotil which is like immodium but also has narcotic effects since it has the same chemicals in it as Demerol (ever flown before?). I cant take this. If i take one 5mg pill I am f*ked up & will vomit bile the next morning.
There is no cure, only strong chemicals like those mentioned above & a new drug that i get every 4 months called Remicade that is basically made from rat DNA & some other really nasty stuff.
You may think "well pot doesnt help cure the disease, it just supresses the symptoms". every drug i mentioned (plus the 2 others i take, that wont go into) does nothing to cure the disease....just the symptoms. its like taking an aspirin for a headache caused by a brain tumor.
the chemical cocktail I take helps but not as well as pot.
I guess what I am trying to say is fvck Bush & his moral crusading cronies.
(dont get me started on stem cell research)
...oh yeah & the mega-pharma-corp-blood-suckers too.
:mumble:
I only suggested immodium because it was the only thing that came to mind as a treatment for gastro-distress.
My aunt has chronins as well, though I don't think her condition is as bad as yours sounds, does it get worse over time?
Again, I'm only asking questions. IMO the stuff should be tested, and if found to offer genuine releif then by all means legalize it for medicinal purposes. But it should remain a prescription drug.
I only suggested immodium because it was the only thing that came to mind as a treatment for gastro-distress.
My aunt has chronins as well, though I don't think her condition is as bad as yours sounds, does it get worse over time?
Again, I'm only asking questions. IMO the stuff should be tested, and if found to offer genuine releif then by all means legalize it for medicinal purposes. But it should remain a prescription drug.
every case is different, but usually no. The disease sort of comes & goes too. You can go days/weeks/months without ever feeling a symptom. of course living healthy helps a ton. I no longer drink copious amounts of alcohol, I eat ALOT better & of course exercising helps too.
My case is considered active & only sometimes is it severe.
I am not a sick person....I just have a $hitty disease.
The FDA seems to rush drugs on to the market waaaaayyy too quickly if you ask me (look at viox, phen-fen, & even Remicade, a new drug that they now say causes lymphoma, luekemia & some nasty blood diseases).
I have started taking less RX's of lately thanks in part to naturally stable fish oil, bee propolis & a healthy diet.
Pot has been an herbal remedy for thousands of years & it is natural. I guess I am going to have to blame the smelly-ass-hippies for the bad stigma pot gets.
Four years as of 5/18/05. One more year and I'm 95% in the clear. The same cancer took my grandmother 20 years ago because it was not treatable. Cancer research has come sooooooooooooooooo far. Just got a bad gean I guess. It on my dads side because he has it now too.
Good luck to your Dad. I hope he can beat it like you did.
dhtahoe
06-15-2005, 01:13 AM
Good luck to your Dad. I hope he can beat it like you did.
Well... I am my fathers son. He taught me to be a fighter.
MMike
06-15-2005, 05:56 AM
I have Chrohn's Disease
No kidding? That's no fun. I have ulcerative colitis... never tried the weed for that. I've been symptom free though (knock wood) for over two years now.
Yeah....my GI told me to never ever ever take Immodium ever again. or aspirin...
(I took part in a clinical study about a month ago. They suspect something in cows' milk could be part of the cause of Chrohn's)
Andyman_1970
06-15-2005, 06:58 AM
I have Chrohn's Disease ................
So does/did my wife. Have you considered getting those inflammed areas resected? My wife had about 7" resected (during emergency exploratory surgery) and has been Chrohn's free for 9 years now.
She can eat anything she wants now, except she does need to get monthy B12 shots, and if she has syrup (like when we go to IHOP) once she's done eating if there's not a bathroom (a decent one...........she is a girl :rolleyes: ) we're in big trouble...........why syrup goes right through her I have no clue.......... :confused:
$tinkle
06-15-2005, 12:21 PM
She can eat anything she wants now, except she does need to get monthy B12 shots, and if she has syrup (like when we go to IHOP) once she's done eating if there's not a bathroom (a decent one...........she is a girl :rolleyes: ) we're in big trouble...........why syrup goes right through her I have no clue.......... :confused:every time i get ready to ride to work - leg in midair over saddle - i gotta spray. not sure if it's raceday conditioning or what (never could start a race until i crapped at least 6X in the hour prior).
another reason i love mtn biking. :)
Andyman_1970
06-15-2005, 03:36 PM
every time i get ready to ride to work - leg in midair over saddle - i gotta spray. not sure if it's raceday conditioning or what (never could start a race until i crapped at least 6X in the hour prior).
another reason i love mtn biking. :)
I love poo threads..................... :thumb:
$tinkle
06-15-2005, 03:42 PM
I love poo threads..................... :thumb:uhh...those are called "tapeworms"
might wanna have those checked out.
So does/did my wife. Have you considered getting those inflammed areas resected? My wife had about 7" resected (during emergency exploratory surgery) and has been Chrohn's free for 9 years now.
She can eat anything she wants now, except she does need to get monthy B12 shots, and if she has syrup (like when we go to IHOP) once she's done eating if there's not a bathroom (a decent one...........she is a girl :rolleyes: ) we're in big trouble...........why syrup goes right through her I have no clue.......... :confused:
in '96 i had an obstruction in my small bowel & had about a foot cutout. At the time they thought that was the only infected area & I was symptom free for about 1 year. Then I started getting sick again, but it was different than before & come to find out I have it in my lower colon too. :rolleyes:
MMmike-
yeah, I've heard UC sucks too. its cool you have been symptom free for so long. :thumb:
The Taliban tied to hide their stash behind this Hummer...
http://www.webmutants.com/strategypage/taliban_smoking.jpg
Ciaran
06-16-2005, 05:42 PM
in '96 i had an obstruction in my small bowel & had about a foot cutout. At the time they thought that was the only infected area & I was symptom free for about 1 year. Then I started getting sick again, but it was different than before & come to find out I have it in my lower colon too. :rolleyes:
What does it feel like/what are the symptoms? I have had off and on stomach trouble for years. I have always just attributed it to stress though.
What does it feel like/what are the symptoms? I have had off and on stomach trouble for years. I have always just attributed it to stress though.
its different for everyone, but somethings that aren't GI related can be symptoms too. Like, stiff, aching joints, low grade fever, low energy level, anemia and also a high sed-rate. It comes & goes too.
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.