santa cruz nomad

[theFOOT]

ok, i just read about this bike in the latest issue of MBA, and already the drool factor has kicked in, has anyone ridden one of these yet? i really want to know what the ride like. i went to my shop that has sc bikes, and they said they dont know if they are going to order them.

[.:Jeenyus:.]

I haven't ridden one, but I have had the chance to look at one set up almost exactly like that. (Mark Weir's) It looks way better in person then in pictures, but I don't think their going to be released until mid summerish.

[JacobDW]

not a fan of the frame design, kinda ugly...... but I hear that the engineering and such behind it is phenominally strong and revolutionary... I just think it is ugly as sin.........

[yonton228]

It's about as pretty as my ass, which aint pretty.

[punkassean]

Don't you mean the Santa Cruz Nognads? Referring to your genitals after the first dismount on uneven terrain? I like the bike but I think that the high-ish standover is no good especially on a 6" travel trailbike that undoubtedly has a ~14" BB.

[escapeartist]

Looks flexy
Does it come in rootbeer?

sorry I just hadta say it.

I would agree with punk, it must be a Santa Cruz theme this year, the Jackal has the same weird testical-owning toptube

[syadasti]

As usual, SC also cheaped out on the shock. Only 2.25" stroke for 6.5" of travel - Specialized has got 2.5" for 6" of travel. I am also guessing that with that much travel they are doing an axle path more like a single pivot rig otherwise the braking performance is going to be crappy - that what they've done with their other long travel VP bikes...

You know people will buy anyways cause you can't beat SC marketing hype :thumb:

[stratguy1618]

My freind should have his sometime in the next few weeks, so when I get to ride it I will let you guys know how it rides :)

[mandown]

my buds and i were just talking about that bike. it was agreed that it is a fat chick = it probably rides quite nice, but i would not want my friends to see me on one.

[Craw]

I thought it was pretty ugly when I saw the chromed out version, but the painted ones look pretty good by comparison.

[Slugman]

Good to see that the guys at SC have taken frame design pointers from the masters at KHS...

[mandown]

hey, it might look better in person. it is amazing what good & bad camera angles can do for a frame. the chrome vs. paint thing could help too.

[Renegade]

Is this the only website you guys hang out at? Try rounding out your info base;
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=96451

[ncrider]

I am also guessing that with that much travel they are doing an axle path more like a single pivot rig otherwise the braking performance is going to be crappy - that what they've done with their other long travel VP bikes...


Care to elaborate or do you like to just make ridiculous statements for fun.

[mandown]

Is this the only website you guys hang out at? Try rounding out your info base;
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=96451

sweet, i will head over there and call the bike ugly in that forum too :thumb:

[sanjuro]

In my Governor's voice:

"You're one ugly motherf*cker"

This will be an interesting sales case: The Nomad fits right in between the Blur LT with 135mm of travel (which I think will be the big 2005 seller for SC) and the VP-Free with 215mm of travel (the lust bike of 2004).

However, will this fit the "in-between" category of Trail and FR bikes? Considering Trail and FR were the in-between categories for XC and DH, will the market bear another SC midrange model?

Specialized already has the new Enduro models, 150mm of rear travel built around the Fox 36 fork. I suppose the Nomad will find its place, except for it fugly look.

[theFOOT]

i like the look of it, and yes, it does look a lot nicer painted other than in that chrome color

[descender]

The website claims a 17.5 chainstay... isn't that long for a trail bike?

Maybe it is a typo. Or maybe they can't make short stays with the VPP linkage in the way.

[OGRipper]

However, will this fit the "in-between" category of Trail and FR bikes? Considering Trail and FR were the in-between categories for XC and DH, will the market bear another SC midrange model?

Who cares where it fits or what you call the kind of riding you do on it? It's one more option for people looking to start or expand their quiver. For someone riding a hardtail XC bike in the desert, the nomad is mega-travel. For someone who only rides DH bikes and lives in BC, it's a lighter rig for epic rides. Or maybe it's the one bike you own if you do everything but can only have one rig.

I dunno, this is not really directed at you sanjuro, I just don't understand why people need to find a label for everything.

[Tharkun]

sweet, i will head over there and call the bike ugly in that forum too :thumb:

Now that's funny!

I know that everyone has their own idea of a good looking bike but damn that is terrible. When a company can release a bike as sexy as the Bullit, and then comes up with that....

I like the testicle owning comment as well.

[Transfer]

I would like to see a frame plus shock weight.

[ncrider]

I read an article in MBA and they quted SC as saying the bike was designed with a bit of that old 50's flare and style.

[sanjuro]

Who cares where it fits or what you call the kind of riding you do on it? It's one more option for people looking to start or expand their quiver. For someone riding a hardtail XC bike in the desert, the nomad is mega-travel. For someone who only rides DH bikes and lives in BC, it's a lighter rig for epic rides. Or maybe it's the one bike you own if you do everything but can only have one rig.

I dunno, this is not really directed at you sanjuro, I just don't understand why people need to find a label for everything.

You have a valid point about classification. However, from a sales perspective, classification is extremely important. That is the reason why bike manufacturers don't offer a bike in the $600 range, $700 range, $800 range, etc. They skip the $700 bike to make it easier to the sell the other two.

I certainly could care less what you ride. My group has HT's, Blurs, Prophets and a Yeti DH, and we all make it up and down based on our ability not our bikes (except for the Yeti).

SC has 3 models of Blurs, the VP-Free, and the V-10 in their VPP line. So they have 5 models already, so my question is how well will the Nomad fit in terms of sales. They could have a loser on their hands.

This reminds of the Ellsworth Id, which received multiple design changes.

[OGRipper]

You have a valid point about classification. However, from a sales perspective, classification is extremely important. That is the reason why bike manufacturers don't offer a bike in the $600 range, $700 range, $800 range, etc. They skip the $700 bike to make it easier to the sell the other two.

I certainly could care less what you ride. My group has HT's, Blurs, Prophets and a Yeti DH, and we all make it up and down based on our ability not our bikes (except for the Yeti).

SC has 3 models of Blurs, the VP-Free, and the V-10 in their VPP line. So they have 5 models already, so my question is how well will the Nomad fit in terms of sales. They could have a loser on their hands.

This reminds of the Ellsworth Id, which received multiple design changes.


Hey I hope you didn't take offense, we're just chatting here. But why does price have anything to do with it? The cost of the bike can vary widely depending on the parts you use no? I agree SCB is getting to the point where there are only small differences between some of their bikes, but they are just giving more choices. If someone that was going to buy a vp-free buys a nomad instead, it's still a sale for SCB. And there just might be someone that was going to buy something else. The nomad could be a loser but my guess it that it will be one more model in a pretty successful line-up: good for some people, not good for others. But they've got a lot of bases covered...

[syadasti]

Care to elaborate or do you like to just make ridiculous statements for fun.

Well it depends on if they want this bike to pedal well or absorb hits well. The s-shaped axle path and position of the brakes makes the real VPP design less active cause it doesn't want to squat under pedal load and the braking stiffens up the rear-end a bit. A good example of this is the V10 - it does not have an s-shaped axle path in reality just the VPP label for marketing purposes:

http://www.mtbcomprador.com/pa/english/chapter4_5.htm
Surprisingly, while the inventors had a very simplistic and incorrect view of bicycle suspension physics, they nevertheless came up with a very interesting mechanism, which has the potential to reduce the dilemma of anti-squat verses bump feedback for a bike run with sag. So, while strictly speaking, the VPP theory could be put in the “Flawed Theories and Bogus Marketing.” chapter, we have instead presented the material here, since the error constitutes only a small portion of the ideas involved in a potentially beneficial concept.

SC V10

Within the range of travel, the rear axle path does not achieve an S-shape. Rather, it has a wide radius of curvature until the very end of travel, with the path tangents starting out similarly to those of a relatively low-pivot mono-pivot and ending with tangents more similar to higher-pivot designs.

The relatively wide radius of curvature should give the bike good big hit shock absorption, with very little bump kickback. Suspension activation under pedaling should be similar to more conventional medium-height pivot designs on the market.

While we again find that there is no advantage in the tradeoff between anti-squat and kickback, and the rear axle path does not achieve the S-shape, within the range of travel, we nevertheless believe that this design should perform well in its intended downhill application, due to good big bump performance.

[sanjuro]

Hey I hope you didn't take offense, we're just chatting here. But why does price have anything to do with it? The cost of the bike can vary widely depending on the parts you use no? I agree SCB is getting to the point where there are only small differences between some of their bikes, but they are just giving more choices. If someone that was going to buy a vp-free buys a nomad instead, it's still a sale for SCB. And there just might be someone that was going to buy something else. The nomad could be a loser but my guess it that it will be one more model in a pretty successful line-up: good for some people, not good for others. But they've got a lot of bases covered...

Everything is cool. Really, I just think the Nomad is fugly...

[Pat...]

I think it looks good. It looks wierd when the seatpost is extended though.

[punkassean]

I would like to see a frame plus shock weight.

I read the MBA article last night at Borders and they said the weight is under 7lb for the frame. They didn't mention if that includes the shock. The new Enduro weighs ~7.5lb w/shock so that makes me think the Nomad weight might be ~7 w/shock also since the Nomad kinda looks pinner compared to the Enduro. But we'll have to "wait" and see. HAHA "weight" and see get it. Okay dumb joke. :D

After reading the MBA article I can't help but be skeptical of the Nomads geometry. The 17.5" CS number is accurate as is the 68º HA. The problem as I see it is that in an attempt to keep the WB switchback and trailbike reasonable SC was forced to make the TT short (med: 22.8") and the HTº steep (68º) to make up for the long CS (17.5") needed to accommodate the VPP linkage behind the BB shell. MBA was calling the geometry "retro" and reminiscent of the original MTB's but that could just be looking for something positive to say in the interest of appeasing SC. Or it could be totally true.

I think the Enduro geometry is more "traditional" with ~16.7" CS, 23.5" TT, and the HT 66.5º (Specialized claims the HT as 68.5º but that was based on a Nixon fork most likely set to ~5" or so, with the 36 on there I measured 66.5º with a digital angle finder).

The Nomad look is growing on me but still-in-all I'd take a Blur LT over it most likely if I was in the market for a long-legged SC trailbike.

[dhtahoe]

Well it depends on if they want this bike to pedal well or absorb hits well. The s-shaped axle path and position of the brakes makes the real VPP design less active cause it doesn't want to squat under pedal load and the braking stiffens up the rear-end a bit. A good example of this is the V10 - it does not have an s-shaped axle path in reality just the VPP label for marketing purposes:

Dude put the bong down. The V-10 DOES have a S-Shaped axel path, and your other pop about SC marketing hype is just lame. I ride a new V-10 stuck it in a stand, put the stand next to a white board, removed the rear shock and wheel, stuck a pen in the axel and moved it thru it's travel. Looked like a backwards S to me. I have ridden a Nomad and I thought it was awesome. And one more thing I don't care what shape a top tube is you fall on it and your nuts WILL hurt. "Best way to avoid punch is no be there" Mr. Miagi

[syadasti]

Dude put the bong down. The V-10 DOES have a S-Shaped axel path, and your other pop about SC marketing hype is just lame. I ride a new V-10 stuck it in a stand, put the stand next to a white board, removed the rear shock and wheel, stuck a pen in the axel and moved it thru it's travel. Looked like a backwards S to me.

http://www.mtbcomprador.com/pa/english/chapter4/image031.jpg

I wasn't talking about the new version - I haven't tried one of those or seen any maps of the travel (if you checked the drawing above, you'd see that). The VPP is supposed to a produce an S-shaped axle path, not a backward shaped s, but an normal S. You know they fired the engineer who designed the first V10 - must be cause its so awesome :thumb:

As you can see, SC used the VPP name for marketing reasons in the old V10 with only half of the s being even possible - they don't implement the theory as it would not work well on a DH bike...

Bikes don't need clearance reducing, ugly gas-tanks on them - they are bicycles, not motorcycles :stosh:

[OGRipper]

Love that ghetto axle-path mapping technique! That's awesome.

It's silly to blame SCB for marketing, everyone does it. Fact is the bikes work great.

And if you've ever ridden one the newer humpback/tank bikes, you know they have great standover clearance. If your nuts are anywhere near the hump you've got bigger problems anyway - and you belong over in the bar hump thread!! :D :D

[Dogboy]

And if you've ever ridden one the newer humpback/tank bikes, you know they have great standover clearance. If your nuts are anywhere near the hump you've got bigger problems anyway - and you belong over in the bar hump thread!! :D :D
Well put!! I laugh every time someone complains about the lack of standover on a Nomad, V10, etc. Standover is measured just in front of the saddle, where one would (GASP) actually dismount and stand over the bike. Not 2" behind the head tube. The standover on my V10 is great and looks excellent on the Nomad.

[Duzitall]

Love that ghetto axle-path mapping technique! Fact is the bikes work great. And if you've ever ridden one the newer humpback/tank bikes, you know they have great standover clearance.

I agree. My old '04 v-10 is so good at everything that it's also completely replaced my trail bike that now just sits alone in the corner. I would gladly replace it with a new v-10 if not for lack of $$$$. I doubt an engineer was fired because the early v-10 was a failure.

[punkassean]

Although standover is measured right in front of the saddle that is in fact misleading. If you are on a downhill section and or carrying virtually ANY forward momentum (which is the case 99.9% of the time) you will end up with your manhood closer to the HT. Now on the V10 and the Jackal the TT comes out and ever-so-slightly arcs up a tad and then slopes dramatically downward. The Nomad however appears to come a ways up before sloping back down. The fact is it is a classic example of form over function and many of us feel it was a poor choice. Many of you don't feel that way but I and many others do.

I really think the Nomad is going to be the long-legged mid-life crisis trailbike. In other words a bike that older guys who have never owned anything over 3-4" and 25lb (probably a Blur for that matter) will be interested in because it looks cool and rides upright/comfortable (short TT, steepish angles) yet gives that "Xtreme" feeling because it "has as much travel as a downhill bike".

If you want one, buy one. It's a cool bike but I wouldn't spend my money on it. I am sure however SC will have ZERO issues selling the crap out of it. It's still leaps and bounds better than most of the market. And the parts spec is oh so tasty. :drool:

[OGRipper]

MBA said the top tube is designed to maximize standover, so it must be true. :blah:

Seriously, you make a good point about dismounting on a downhill but I still think you are going OTB if your manhood is anywhere near up by the headtube. But that's me, and personally I get back behind the saddle more than I should. Hmm, maybe that's why I can't seem to turn very well when it gets steep. :confused: :)

[syadasti]

Love that ghetto axle-path mapping technique! That's awesome.

There is nothing ghetto about CAD and kinematic programs and their resulting output - its what engineers use in the real world at the moment...

[OGRipper]

There is nothing ghetto about CAD and kinematic programs and their resulting output - its what engineers use in the real world at the moment...


I am not an engineer and have no idea, but I have no problem believing that you are correct. I was talking about DHTahoe's method, which is a little less sophisticated. :cool:

[HRDTLBRO]

Although standover is measured right in front of the saddle that is in fact misleading. If you are on a downhill section and or carrying virtually ANY forward momentum (which is the case 99.9% of the time) you will end up with your manhood closer to the HT. Now on the V10 and the Jackal the TT comes out and ever-so-slightly arcs up a tad and then slopes dramatically downward. The Nomad however appears to come a ways up before sloping back down. The fact is it is a classic example of form over function and many of us feel it was a poor choice. Many of you don't feel that way but I and many others do.

I really think the Nomad is going to be the long-legged mid-life crisis trailbike. In other words a bike that older guys who have never owned anything over 3-4" and 25lb (probably a Blur for that matter) will be interested in because it looks cool and rides upright/comfortable (short TT, steepish angles) yet gives that "Xtreme" feeling because it "has as much travel as a downhill bike".

If you want one, buy one. It's a cool bike but I wouldn't spend my money on it. I am sure however SC will have ZERO issues selling the crap out of it. It's still leaps and bounds better than most of the market. And the parts spec is oh so tasty. :drool:
But I thought you rode an "Xtreme" Enduro? :p :D

[Duzitall]

I ride a new V-10 stuck it in a stand, put the stand next to a white board, removed the rear shock and wheel, stuck a pen in the axel and moved it thru it's travel. Looked like a backwards S to me.

That's the ghetto CAD mapping OGR's talking about. As for me...I don't care if the pen draws a dog leg, the ride's smooth and that's fact not marketing hype. Where's it written that VPP has an S POT for the axle? My VPP axle moves just like the animation on the Santa Cruz website.

Here's a perfect example:

[syadasti]

But I thought you rode an "Xtreme" Enduro? :p :D

He does, but its soundly engineered and superior for several reasons:

-Designed for air and coil shocks
-Normal TT with better clearance
-Superior Chassis (forged, shaped, hydroformed parts all around)
-Lower leverage ratio (uses a 2.5" stroke for 6" while the SC only uses 2.35" for 6.5")
-Chainguide Mount
-More active and controlled suspension (lower leverage ratio and if the nomad is a really VPP, it will be semi-active)
-Better CG
-Adjustable geometry via shock shuttles
-Quad bearing bushingless pivot
-Specialized has less broken delivery promises than SC

[ncrider]

http://www.mtbcomprador.com/pa/english/chapter4/image031.jpg




So are you contradicting yourself now? Didn't you say I am also guessing that with that much travel they are doing an axle path more like a single pivot rig otherwise the braking performance is going to be crappy - that what they've done with their other long travel VP bikes...


Now your proving yourself wrong.

[syadasti]

That's the ghetto CAD mapping OGR's talking about. As for me...I don't care if the pen draws a dog leg, the ride's smooth and that's fact not marketing hype. Where's it written that VPP has an S POT for the axle? My VPP axle moves just like the animation on the Santa Cruz website.

Here's a perfect example:

It works well for its intended application- I'm not challenging that, but not because it does all of what the VPP patent and marketing hype says ...

[syadasti]

So are you contradicting yourself now? Didn't you say

Now your proving yourself wrong.

No, its not possible to get the bottom part of the S-path - the bike is at no preload and thus can only go through half the S...

As I posted above:

SC V10

Within the range of travel, the rear axle path does not achieve an S-shape. Rather, it has a wide radius of curvature until the very end of travel, with the path tangents starting out similarly to those of a relatively low-pivot mono-pivot and ending with tangents more similar to higher-pivot designs.

The relatively wide radius of curvature should give the bike good big hit shock absorption, with very little bump kickback. Suspension activation under pedaling should be similar to more conventional medium-height pivot designs on the market.

So the old V10 basically acts like a Rube Goldberg medium-height single-pivot bike :nuts:

[HRDTLBRO]

He does, but its soundly engineered and superior for several reasons:

-Designed for air and coil shocks
-Normal TT with better clearance
-Superior Chassis (forged, shaped, hydroformed parts all around)
-Lower leverage ratio (uses a 2.5" stroke for 6" while the SC only uses 2.35" for 6.5")
-Chainguide Mount
-More active and controlled suspension (lower leverage ratio and if the nomad is a really VPP, it will be semi-active)
-Better CG
-Adjustable geometry via shock shuttles
-Quad bearing bushingless pivot
-Specialized has less broken delivery promises than SC
No doubt, I love the Enduro...i'm just teasing him on the similar amount of travel. :thumb: A bit unusual for SC not to put a chainguide mount on this frame, eh? Is it me, or has Santa Cruz started churning out a vpp frame for every niche in the market, rather than sticking with a small number of sturdy, reliable bikes? The 12 different Blur types...this new Nomad...new VP-Free rumors...the updated V10. I can only hope they keep some of the lovely single pivot frames.

[OGRipper]

Yep Sean's bike is sweet. As for everything else you said, since when has there been a Specialized cult? :D

[syadasti]

Yep Sean's bike is sweet. As for everything else you said, since when has there been a Specialized cult? :D

Well 16% of the bikes I've bought since 1989 (that would be 25 bikes) have been Specialized, thats the most loyal I've been to to a brand :confused: :D

[Dogboy]

Yep Sean's bike is sweet. As for everything else you said, since when has there been a Specialized cult? :D
For real. Of the 10 points you make, I'll say about 2, maybe 3, are valid.

[OGRipper]

No, its not possible to get the bottom part of the S-path - the bike is at no preload and thus can only go through half the S...
So the old V10 basically acts like a Rube Goldberg medium-height single-pivot bike :nuts:

I don't know, just because you don't use it after the normal sag point doesn't mean you don't use it...or doesn't your suspension ever extend out of your sag point?

But anyway, s curve or not, I like the way my blur and vp-free work regardless of the ad copy. If you like specialized, rock it.

[syadasti]

I don't know, just because you don't use it after the normal sag point doesn't mean you don't use it...or doesn't your suspension ever extend out of your sag point?

The bike cannot extend past the way it is shown in bold in the diagram, otherwise the lower linkage would have to cut through the BB;) The complete S is shown for what it would be if it was possible.

But anyway, s curve or not, I like the way my blur and vp-free work regardless of the ad copy. If you like specialized, rock it.

Fair enough, just pointing out the flaws in the copy, not saying the bike sucks. FSR bikes don't work as well Specialized says either - they all have trade-offs.

As far as the 05 Enduro and its new competitor, the Nomad, the Enduro has more advantages so it comes out on top. They are both very nice bike regardless...

I think punkass also mentioned the geometry. Thats personal, but I also agree its nicer for this genre of bikes...

[Duzitall]

As far as the 05 Enduro and its new competitor, the Nomad, the Enduro has more advantages so it comes out on top. They are both very nice bike regardless...

I agree that they are both nice bikes but remind me if you would please, the advantages the Enduro has that out-weigh those of the Nomad :confused:

[syadasti]

I agree that they are both nice bikes but remind me if you would please, the advantages the Enduro has that out-weigh those of the Nomad :confused:

Here they are again:

-Normal TT with better clearance - standover and otherwise
-Superior Chassis (forged, shaped, hydroformed parts all around vs. a pretty standard tubeset with only a few hydroformed bits)
-Lower leverage ratio (uses a 2.5" stroke for 6" while the SC only uses 2.35" for 6.5")
-Has ICSG Chainguide Mount
-More active and controlled suspension (lower leverage ratio and if the nomad is a really VPP, it will be semi-active)
-Better/lower center of gravity
-Has adjustable geometry via shock shuttles
-Has quad bearing bushingless pivot instead of just dual on Nomad
-Specialized has less broken delivery promises than SC and you can get an Enduro right NOW...
-Superior geometry for this do-it-all genre of bikes (personal, but this bike will be better in tight stuff)
-You can run an air or coil shocks (I don't recall if you can run a coil shock on Nomad - nothing that indicates you can so far)

[ncrider]

The bike cannot extend past the way it is shown in bold in the diagram, otherwise the lower linkage would have to cut through the BB;) The complete S is shown for what it would be if it was possible.


Well I see a bit of an S in your diagram, but what ever I really don't care. Your using the old V10 can you set up a diagram for the vpfree and new V10, just for fun, please.

All I'm saying here is that for you to say a VPP axle path moves like a single pivot is grossly wrong. If you said it moves similar to a four bar or fsr than you could be a bit closer. I'm no engineer but, single pivot with 10 inches of travel would likely have a huge arch in the axle path or swoop outward/inward dramtically. Essential a VPP is a four bar just with two much smaller sections. These sections or linkage plates can be tuned to provide different characteristics or a trade off between several, which give VPP an undeniable superior pedalability while still retain small bump sensitivity and ok braking.

[syadasti]

Well I see a bit of an S in your diagram, but what ever I really don't care. Your using the old V10 can you set up a diagram for the vpfree and new V10, just for fun, please.

All I'm saying here is that for you to say a VPP axle path moves like a single pivot is grossly wrong. If you said it moves similar to a four bar or fsr than you could be a bit closer. I'm no engineer but, single pivot with 10 inches of travel would likely have a huge arch in the axle path or swoop outward/inward dramtically. Essential a VPP is a four bar just with two much smaller sections. These sections or linkage plates can be tuned to provide different characteristics or a trade off between several, which give VPP an undeniable superior pedalability while still retain small bump sensitivity and ok braking.

Nice marketing regurgitation, but with the full VPP implementation, you don't get good small bump performance cause you are fighting chain torque. Thats why the old V10 only has half the S - the full VPP implementation pedals great but isn't full active as chain torque prevents the suspension from activating on the small stuff. The s-shaped axle path is different than the FSR, single pivot, and DW-link. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. I did not make the diagram and I don't know where the author got it from. Some of his ideas aren't 100% spot on, but its a good basis

http://www.mtbcomprador.com/pa/english/index.htm

[smedford]

I skimmed this, bit did anyone mention that the Nomad actually looks like an ugly swan?

[ncrider]

The s-shaped axle path is different than the......single pivot.


Thankyou thats what I've been waiting for. :)

But yes your right, I should have stressed the tradeoffs more. Not sure if you've had any time on one, but the small bump sensitivity isn't all that bad. Certainly not as buttery as other bikes, but worth the trade off for the superior pedaling. A strong misconception is that chain forces "lockout" the suspension. Not so. I know the design has that application, but SC has been able to tune around it. While pedalling my vpfree up hill, with tons of chain force, like when you think we might not be able to pedal anymore, if I hit a bump the suspension still moves and tracks nicely over rocks and other debris. Again, probly less plush than a different linkage type but not locked out by any means. If I had been (like my friends) on a dirfferent linkage bike I would not be able to pedal back up hill to even know the difference in design. Where I ride, being able to pedal is really important. So again there is a tradeoff, but for some it's worth it.

[syadasti]

NCrider - that sounds about right. I didn't say locked out, but less active. As far as riding other people bikes - well they are setup for that rider - spring rates, damping, gearing, etc and you probably won't get a good feel for their bike. If I'm a stick man and I jump on some big goon's bike who has different setup preferences than me or vice versa, its going to feel and ride like crap.

[habitatxskate]

personnaly i don't like it but go demo or test ride it whichever you could do

[arboc!]

why are you bringing back all these week or more old threads just to say useless stuff?

[yonton228]

maybe cuz he wants to, why do you allways harrase people when they say sumtin?? i am not tryin to be dick or anything, but dam.

[lovebunny]

NCrider - that sounds about right. I didn't say locked out, but less active. As far as riding other people bikes - well they are setup for that rider - spring rates, damping, gearing, etc and you probably won't get a good feel for their bike. If I'm a stick man and I jump on some big goon's bike who has different setup preferences than me or vice versa, its going to feel and ride like crap.
no ncriders right. ive ridden his vp free. it definatly isnt as plush as my bb7. but it does pedal way better.

[syadasti]

FTW - haha!

Santa Cruz admits the original V10 didn't have S-shaped axle path - marketing was bull**** as usual suckers:

In the process head engineer Joe Graney also made a startling discovery: the much touted "S" axle path that was considered the heart of VPP'S effectiveness was simply a coincidence. He says, "Axle path doesn't matter for bicycle suspension. In fact, Santa Cruz once published a postcard showing the original V-10 axle path as being S-shaped and it was misleading and technically incorrect." Santa Cruz has a U.S. patent that covers the "S" path specifically but no longer enforces it.

[Racerx7734]

I really love the ride on my Nomad, I can honestly say that it feels like a mini V10. I have a V10 and I can make this comparison.

Nomad is worth the hype in my opinion....Im actually surprised more people dont use them for DH.

For what it's worth........I loved my Bullit also.