Session 77 opinions/comments...

[manhattanprjkt83]

Initially I was planning on getting a session 77 because I am in real need of a bike to ride snowshoe/mtn creek (currently only have DOC for street and a Chameleon for XC). But im not sure i like the direction trek is going with this new stuff from sea otter... :confused: I am in a dilemma. I’m not sure if i want to go "big manufacturer" or not, but the small guys are pretty $$$. The one upside the trek is that I will be able to employee purchase this bike, so for you industry guys you can do that math on a $3500 bike...Its a damn good deal. This weekend I got to ride one and was really impressed with the pedaling, weight, and overall feel of the bike and just for the record i dont really race much. I know the board is very "anti trek" but I just wanted some opinions from you :monkey:'s...thanks guys

http://www2.trekbikes.com/Assets/Bikes/Mountain/Full_Suspension/Session/Session_77/asset_upload_file446_3268.jpg

[binary visions]

The build quality of those things looks so damn nice... Screw the Trek haters, that frame is :drool:

edit: You've ridden it; why are you asking us? If you liked the way it rode, that's all that matters.

[mobius]

I say go for it. It looks like a nicely crafted frame. I wouldn't pay retail for it but if you can get a prodeal or whatever its called on it i'd do it.

[Zark]

What else can you pro deal? ;)

[JacobDW]

The only downside I see is that there is no Zocchi on it............

[punkassean]

Something about the 1.5" HT and all-around beefy tubing gives it sort of a toyish finger bike look but really it's a great bike so go for it. And having no Zocchi is not really a downside exactly in many peoples opinions. Shermans rawk!

[Jayridesacove]

If you like it, then get it.

Who cares if people on the forum have negative things to say about it, they won't be riding the damn thing.

[Handlebarsfsr]

looks like a pretty blatant ripoff of a kona stinky or a banshee scream to me.

[Zark]

looks like a pretty blatant ripoff of a kona stinky or a banshee scream to me.

Uhh oh, the Trek lovers are gonna stomp all over now :p

But you're right, Ohh, I forgot, the pivots are bigger :rolleyes:

[BMXman]

looks like a pretty blatant ripoff of a kona stinky or a banshee scream to me.
who also ripped off some one else...who ripped off someone else...and so on and on....D

[Jayridesacove]

looks like a pretty blatant ripoff of a kona stinky or a banshee scream to me.
Why? because they share a walking beam 4 bar? :rolleyes:
Maybe Kona and Banshee are just a rip off of the Turners(5 spot, burner)...

Neither kona or banshee uses a 1.5 headtube, the trek uses a completely different tubeset.

It's just another take on an old suspension design...

[OGRipper]

Don't be dragged down by the fashionistas. Ignore anyone that can't view things like bicycles objectively. Most people like that have no personality or style so they rely on inanimate objects for it - bikes, cars, whatever. It's kind of twisted and sad.

Those things are pretty sweet and are a killer deal. You like it, you can get one cheap, and you'll probably have good warranty service if anything goes wrong. Get one and make it your own by riding the snot out of it with style.

The only thing stopping you is an anti-trek attitude created by posers and boutique companies who want you to believe that smaller is better. It's just another, stealthier version of hype, spun as the anti-hype. Don't believe it.

But if you want fashion advice, go somewhere else.

[dexter]

i got to ride cam's around for a while and realy liked it. felt solid and jumped really well go for it

[manhattanprjkt83]

oh i def dont care what people "think" of my bike when im on it, i just wanted to get a tech perspective...and was hoping not to get a biased one from all of my fellow :monkey: snobs...

And no Zoch is a + for me, big fan of the sherman 1.5 single crown :thumb:

my riding was limitied to the parking lost test...:rolleyes:

[binary visions]

looks like a pretty blatant ripoff of a kona stinky or a banshee scream to me.
I'm always blown away by the number of people who claim a bike is a "ripoff" of another company.

There is very little that hasn't been done, time and time again. Your precious Kona, which this design has apparently "ripped off", wasn't the first, or even fifth company to use the design. All single pivots are a ripoff of Santa Cruz, too, right? And the M3 is exactly the same as the V10. :rolleyes:

The build quality and finish of this bike appear to be top notch. The machining is nice, the tubing looks good, and the 1.5 headtube and enormous pivots (with pinchbolts, no less) show attention to detail. If the geometry suits you, then you've just bought yourself a high quality, well-fitting bike with a warrenty from a large company. What's not to like?

[Handlebarsfsr]

It's just another take on an old suspension design...


thats kinda my point- everyone bashes the stinky for using "ancient suspension technology" (the basic design dating back to the 5" stab in '98), and how expensive they are, and this bike is more or less the same technology, same suspension type, (and save for the 1.5 headtube), pretty damn similar in looks. and for 3500 bucks, it aint cheap either. i just dont see whats so special about it that most of the posters in this thread think its such a great bike.

[klunky]

high qualtiy tube set, hand built in the U.S. by some of THE best frame builders out there. Warranty that will stand.

[OGRipper]

thats kinda my point- everyone bashes the stinky for using "ancient suspension technology" (the basic design dating back to the 5" stab in '98), and how expensive they are, and this bike is more or less the same technology, same suspension type, (and save for the 1.5 headtube), pretty damn similar in looks. and for 3500 bucks, it aint cheap either. i just dont see whats so special about it that most of the posters in this thread think its such a great bike.


Nobody said it's the bee's knees or even very innovative. It's a solid design that seems to be well executed with Trek's consistent, high quality and with some thought put into details and components. Not that "special" but one more good choice amongst many.

Dude said he likes it but is not sure about going "big manufacturer". I think the point most of us are trying to make is that he should try to ignore that crap and objectively figure out if he likes the bike.

[Jayridesacove]

thats kinda my point- everyone bashes the stinky for using "ancient suspension technology" (the basic design dating back to the 5" stab in '98), and how expensive they are, and this bike is more or less the same technology, same suspension type, (and save for the 1.5 headtube), pretty damn similar in looks. and for 3500 bucks, it aint cheap either. i just dont see whats so special about it that most of the posters in this thread think its such a great bike.

What point?
Your first post in this thread
looks like a pretty blatant ripoff of a kona stinky or a banshee scream to me.
And in regards to ancient suspension technology, lets take a look at the AMP B4's 4 bar horst link which Specialized bought. That's pretty ancient. So what!? It works.
I think you're just looking for something to bash since you obviously have something against Trek or large builders.

[ChrisRobin]

looks like a pretty blatant ripoff of a kona stinky or a banshee scream to me.

But the craftsmanship and quality will be well beyond anything Kona can make...ever!

[manhattanprjkt83]

i think i am gonna pull the trigger on it...

[samich457]

Got my Session 77 frame two weeks ago and its a killer bike. Pedals awesome and jumps great! Its everything I would hope it would be and more. Not the lightest bike in the world but I dont mind that. I think you should get it, you wont be dissappointed!!

[sanjuro]

high qualtiy tube set, hand built in the U.S. by some of THE best frame builders out there. Warranty that will stand.

Hold on a second. Not all Trek frames are made in America. Many of their aluminum bikes are made in the Pacific Rim, if not all of them.

I like your lines about "high qualtiy tube set, hand built in the U.S. by some of THE best frame builders out there". So Trek is better than Titus, Seven, Calfee, and Serotta?

I am curious if the Session is made in America or not. Not that it matters much...

[jackalope]

Nobody said it's the bee's knees or even very innovative. It's a solid design that seems to be well executed with Trek's consistent, high quality and with some thought put into details and components. Not that "special" but one more good choice amongst many.

I think OG's comments are pretty much spot on in this case...Nothing new or fancy, but prolly well done...Although Trek can sure as f make some sh!te frames...Take the Fuel and Sugar (I assume Trek makes the Sugars anyway) for example...The rear triangles (specifically, the cross member right behind the BB on both frames, and the weld on the seat tube for the rocker arm pivot on the the Fuels) on these bikes were as fragile as egg shells and they never bothered to fix the problem(s)...Yes, it's nice that they send you a new triangle, but I could break those things every 3-4 months of trail riding and wait for a replacement triangle for 2 weeks or so...Garbage...And quite frankly, I was completely underwhelmed by the Liquid...

But before every big company apologist lables me as a 'Trek hater' or 'Specialized hater', or whatever, I'll simply say that is just not the case...Like OG said, I don't give a damn who makes the bike, as long as it works and doesn't break in normal conditions within 6 months of purchase...But there's almost always a vehement reaction whenever says anything less-then-wonderful about a big bike company product...Yes, sometimes people get caught up in the anti-establishment fervor, but there's also many people who are just giving their honest opinion regardless of manufacturer...

[dante]

All single pivots are a ripoff of Santa Cruz, too, right?

c'mon, don't you know that haro ripped off santa cruz? :oink:

[OGRipper]

Good points jackalope.

But there's almost always a vehement reaction whenever says anything less-then-wonderful about a big bike company product...Yes, sometimes people get caught up in the anti-establishment fevor, but there's also many people who are just giving their honest opinion regardless of manufacturer...

Yeah it's funny, you can't please everyone all the time. Someone somewhere will get excited or defensive regardless, and it usually has nothing to do with the bike itself. Marketing and media have messed up some people's ability to evaluate products.

Reminds me of this line from Paris (the rapper):

"Labels never made the culture, you got it twisted.
So recognize these f***ing vultures, and where they fit in."

[zedro]

I'm always blown away by the number of people who claim a bike is a "ripoff" of another company.....

The build quality and finish of this bike appear to be top notch. The machining is nice, the tubing looks good, and the 1.5 headtube and enormous pivots (with pinchbolts, no less) show attention to detail. If the geometry suits you, then you've just bought yourself a high quality, well-fitting bike with a warrenty from a large company. What's not to like?

because people are still so bewildered by the sight of pivots, they just cant help trying to compare....i wonder if roadies ever accuse different manufacturers of doing that, or do they in fact look at the geometry and quality of construction as a major basis...

[dump]

It's hard to can't deny the attraction of an employee discount, but at the same time there are other options... what would your $2K buy you in an ironhorse (for example)

[OGRipper]

because people are still so bewildered by the sight of pivots, they just cant help trying to compare....i wonder if roadies ever accuse different manufacturers of doing that, or do they in fact look at the geometry and quality of construction as a major basis...

Roadie 1: "Did you see the new Colnago?"

Roadie 2: "Yeah it's so lame, I can't believe they went with that tired old triple triangle approach. It's so boring."

Roadie 1: "No kidding. Where's the innovation? It looks just like any Bianchi or Pinnarello. And jeez, it's still got regular old derailleurs on it too, how weak. How do they expect us to get excited about riding it?"

Roadie 2: "I don't know, they said some crap about the geometry or the ride or whatver, I was concentrating on my chamois cream application and didn't pay attention."

[zedro]

Roadie 2: "I don't know, they said some crap about the geometry or the ride or whatver, I was concentrating on my chamois cream application and didn't pay attention."

LOL....ok maybe that last part is probable.....

[OGRipper]

mmmmm...chamois cream... :love: :p

[manhattanprjkt83]

It's hard to can't deny the attraction of an employee discount, but at the same time there are other options... what would your $2K buy you in an ironhorse (for example)


$2k ;) not so much...

[zedro]

mmmmm...chamois cream... :love: :p

"i dont know what it is, but it sounds like it really feels good ahhhhhh...."

[ohio]

So Trek is better than Titus, Seven, Calfee, and Serotta?

Probably not Seven or Serotta, but yes to Titus. I've seen some shoddy welds beaded up all fat to look pretty but with no penetration on their bikes. Not saying that's the way they always do it, but the pieces I looked at were welded for show not strength.

As for Calfee, uh, there's no welds on a carbon bike... so I'm not really sure what you want to compare.

Trek also has access to better materials, better tooling, and their welders are building a lot more of these... that leads to great consistency. It's easier to get it right when you're welding 100 of the same bikes than if it's a new weld geometry and tube thickness everytime or every 3rd bike.

That's not to say they're the greatest company ever. They've had their design issues, and the fuel seat-tube was totally mispecc'd, but that doesn't mean they can't build a world-class bike. Same goes for the other big guys - Specialized, Cannondale, Giant, etc.

[MtnbikeMike]

I think OG's comments are pretty much spot on in this case...Nothing new or fancy, but prolly well done...Although Trek can sure as f make some sh!te frames...Take the Fuel and Sugar (I assume Trek makes the Sugars anyway) for example...The rear triangles (specifically, the cross member right behind the BB on both frames, and the weld on the seat tube for the rocker arm pivot on the the Fuels) on these bikes were as fragile as egg shells and they never bothered to fix the problem(s)...Yes, it's nice that they send you a new triangle, but I could break those things every 3-4 months of trail riding and wait for a replacement triangle for 2 weeks or so...Garbage...And quite frankly, I was completely underwhelmed by the Liquid...

If you were breaking frames every 3-4 months, it sounds like you needed a little more bike. My bike lasted over 2 1/2 years, then they sent me a carbon frame in about a week. So my experience was good, and I bought a new one. :thumb:

Edit: And it didn't break at the "usual" spots. So I guess I was lucky.

[Handlebarsfsr]

I think you're just looking for something to bash since you obviously have something against Trek or large builders.


actually i have nothing against large companies or ancient suspension technologies- i happen to own both a kona stinky and a specialized fsr. my point is that with all the new suspension technology out there, and all the money trek has, to introduce a bike that brings nothing new to the table isnt a big feat. this thread is entitled "session 77 opinions/comments..." and its my opinion that for a company as large as trek to should at least have something better.

[binary visions]

actually i have nothing against large companies or ancient suspension technologies- i happen to own both a kona stinky and a specialized fsr. my point is that with all the new suspension technology out there, and all the money trek has, to introduce a bike that brings nothing new to the table isnt a big feat. this thread is entitled "session 77 opinions/comments..." and its my opinion that for a company as large as trek to should at least have something better.
You do know that more complicated doesn't always mean better, right?

Single pivots still work great. The 4-bar variation allows some tuning of the shock rate/frame design. Not everyone likes VPP designs (not to mention SC may choose not to license it at all), the DW-link is exclusive to Iron Horse this year, and this is one of Trek's first forays into the DH/FR field. Why would they spend a ton of money on development before they even know if they can turn a profit?

[black noise]

Like binary said, how many different designs are available? SC has the VPP, Specialized has FSR, Iron Horse has the DW link, so Trek is kinda left with the 4-bar or a single pivot. Unless they want to spend tons of money and a few years making something truly incredible like the Yeti 303.

Why are people bitching about this? Did anyone complain about Specialized using a boring old design with their Demo? Some designs work very well, so they are used often. I'm sure the Session 77 is a great bike regardless of how outdated it is.

[zedro]

Did anyone complain about Specialized using a boring old design with their Demo?
no, because alot didnt realise it was still an FSR design with the triangulated chainstay and all. Not that many seem to be able to tell what designs are what in the first place, which kinda makes you wonder how everyones an expert...

[jackalope]

Unless they want to spend tons of money and a few years making something truly incredible like the Yeti 303.

Why the heck not? I know Binary and Zed disagree with me on this (based on our previous p!ssing match), but I truly believe Trek coulda made a MUCH bigger splash in the FR pool with something new like what Yeti is doing...If a fairly small company like Yeti can develope something like the 303 design, why can't Trek? Hell, scratch a fat check to Zedro and use his file cabinet design (obviously slimmed down for FR purposes) :)

Keep in mind that I am speaking almost strictly from a marketing/sales point of view...Does it really matter if a design is light years better than a FSR 4 bar or single pivot? No, but SC has freaking made a living off the VPP design which really isn't significantly different in performance than a good 4 bar design...Maybe Trek will have no problem selling every one of those Sessions and more power to them if they do...Just kinda hoping for something more if only for selfish-tech geek reasons and nothing else...

[binary visions]

If a fairly small company like Yeti can develope something like the 303 design, why can't Trek?
Yeti has been entrenched in the DH/FR market for years. They know they can make a living at it. They have a racing team and years of market research. They have the Yeti brand, that people would buy even if it were a flaming bag of poo with a damper squished into it.

Yeti didn't enter the market with a new design. They entered the market like everyone else enters a market - with a proven suspension design.

SC has freaking made a living off the VPP design which really isn't significantly different in performance than a good 4 bar design...
But again, SC had a solid market offering for years before they got into this VPP stuff.

Just kinda hoping for something more if only for selfish-tech geek reasons and nothing else...
...I hope you don't think, by my comments, that I wouldn't love to see a huge company like Trek invest a ton of R&D into something new :D

[hooples3]

i was looking at that trek for a while too. I decided to go for the new VP-free instead, i am a huge santacruz fan. i also like the Norco dh bike... it just felt right. try as many bikes as you can before buying. i based my buying on how i felt on the bike.

[ChrisRobin]

But before every big company apologist lables me as a 'Trek hater' or 'Specialized hater', or whatever, I'll simply say that is just not the case...Like OG said, I don't give a damn who makes the bike, as long as it works and doesn't break in normal conditions within 6 months of purchase...But there's almost always a vehement reaction whenever says anything less-then-wonderful about a big bike company product...Yes, sometimes people get caught up in the anti-establishment fervor, but there's also many people who are just giving their honest opinion regardless of manufacturer...

Good points...

The problem is when people straight out say: "that's a piece of crap." No tact, no intelligence behind it. That's when Ridemonkey people get all hot and bothered including myself.

[OGRipper]

i based my buying on how i felt on the bike.

Not to diss my brothers, but this is the smartest thing in this thread so far.

As for Trek, I think they needed a solid design to prove they can be a contender in the DH/FR scene - that they can make a pretty cool bike that works and is durable. I see the 77 as the first salvo in what could be a pretty exciting division for Trek...they probably have real concerns as to whether the "core" crowd will ever buy a Trek - a concern that seems legit based on some of the comments here. And who knows what they already have in development?

Anyway, ride what you like, not what someone tells you is cool.

[ChrisRobin]

Not to diss my brothers, but this is the smartest thing in this thread so far.

As for Trek, I think they needed a solid design to prove they can be a contender in the DH/FR scene - that they can make a pretty cool bike that works and is durable. I see the 77 as the first salvo in what could be a pretty exciting division for Trek...they probably have real concerns as to whether the "core" crowd will ever buy a Trek - a concern that seems legit based on some of the comments here. And who knows what they already have in development?

Anyway, ride what you like, not what someone tells you is cool.

I agree...

I think Trek is trying to make a careful 'jump' into the FR and DH world. They had moderate success with the Diesel which was supposedly an awesome frame. The first year the Bruiser hardtail came out, it flopped because (from what a Trek rep told me), it was the following year that all the FR hardtails came out: they were a year early from a marketing aspect. With this new DH frame, I'm figuring they wanted to release something that was wasn't 100% original yet still apply their own details...and Trek's details are usually pretty nice! That new DH bike looks like they're starting to raise the stakes and jump into full blown DH with something different.

[davetrump]

f**k who's name is on the thing.

that bike was designed from the ground up by andrew shandro. he wanted a bike that fit a few specific requirements. the ability to run a long travel single crown fork, and a front derailleur, and the ability to raise/lower the seatpost without interfearing with the suspension, as well as being strong enough to stand up to the kind of riding a pro rider can dish out. someone said the frame design was a "copy" or not "inovative", but to accomplish these other goals this is probably the best design to work with. he also wanted the geometry to be more suited to the speed at which a bike with this much suspension could be ridden. he was quoted in dirt as saying the most important things to him were botom bracket height and the head angle. the first prototype he hated, so trek refined it until they came up with this version.

i think it was zedro who said everyone gets confused by all the pivots and crap and forgets what is important... geometry and construction. this bike has a low bottom bracket, slack head angle, front derailleur, uniterupted seat tube so you can raise/lower the seat for different ridding, 1.5 headtube for single or dual crown forks, it is strong, and made in the usa.... yeah, i'd hit it.

hell, myles rockwell won worlds on a similar design by giant in 1999, and fabien barrel again on a kona in 2004... just more proof that you do not need to reinvent the wheel to make a solid, well ridding bicycle.

it seems to many people on here are more concerned with nit picking every aspect of a bike apart (even better, speculating on bikes they have never ridden or seen in person)... except the parts that actually matter.

[Cant Climb]

i think it was zedro who said everyone gets confused by all the pivots and crap and forgets what is important... geometry and construction.

it seems to many people on here are more concerned with nit picking every aspect of a bike apart (even better, speculating on bikes they have never ridden or seen in person)... except the parts that actually matter.

Amen.

[zedro]

Hell, scratch a fat check to Zedro and use his file cabinet design (obviously slimmed down for FR purposes) :)



lol :D