Newbie questions

[TreeSaw]

So, I am seriously considering getting a singlespeed rig for XC riding. I am hoping that it will help me to become a better and stronger rider (choose better lines, carry my speed better, stand up more, etc.). Unfortunately, I may die tring though as many of our local trails aren't all that "single-speed friendly". Basically, I am looking for a solid, light-weight frame, light wheels and fork options, but I don't want to spend a ton of $. What would you experienced SSers recommend? Oh yeah, I am short too (5'4"- and usually ride a small frame around 14-15"). Thanks for your input and hopefully I will get a rig up and running and be joining your forum more often :D

[riderx]

Basically, I am looking for a solid, light-weight frame, light wheels and fork options, but I don't want to spend a ton of $. What would you experienced SSers recommend? Oh yeah, I am short too (5'4"- and usually ride a small frame around 14-15").As Keith B. said: "Light, strong, cheap. Pick two."

For a complete bike, look at the Bianchi SASS or GUSS, they both come in small sizes.

If building yourself, look at a Surly frame and rigid fork (XS) and build a set of wheels using a light rim and Surly hubs.

For size and value, these are probably your best options.

[Polytics]

All trails are SS friendly... you just have to choose your gearing carefully.

The downhills I ride are uber-technical and the uphills are always nasty slogs (not much good all-round XC here... you climbclimbclimb then dropdropdrop). I coast on most the downhills so I'm find running a 34-21 to give my knees a bit of a break uphill.

What bike you buy depends a lot on $$$ (just like any bike). If you aren't sure about SS riding your best bet is to take an old hardtail (if you don't have one buy one used) strip the gears off and get a singlespeed device (from Pauls, Rolhof, DMR, Surly). This will probably get you the lightest package by $$$. Plus you don't have to worry about buying used cause the stuff that goes first (gears, cogs) you won't need.

If you want to buy new. Check out the Redline Monocog... they are a good starter bike. But I'd still recommend modifying a hardtail, that way if you hate SS you can put gears back on and use it as a backup or a smelly-lender

[MMcG]

T- did you see that cove that was modified with an eccentric bottom bracket in your wanted thread? I bet you'd like that frame.

[GumbaFish]

Check out the premium classified beta i saw a nice redline there that I would definately buy if I hadn't just bought another frame. think it was like 150 for the frame, fork, headset, seatpost, and wheelset including a cog. Just get a chain, some cranks, a cockpit and a seat and you're ready to go.

[gatman]

I agree. All trails are SS friendly. All you do is pedal. No worries about shifting and all that crap.

Just be prepaired to collect a lot of dust on your gearie. I get's easier to ignore it's looks as you take your SS bike past it and out the door.

[H8R]

Options:

1) Take any frame you really like, and get a tensioner and drop it to one gear.

2) Buy a dedicated SS frame

Whichever you choose, you will notice right away that the bike is lighter than a multi geared bike. This gives you a little wiggle room for more durable parts.


Tips:

180mm cranks. If you normally run shorter cranks, like 170's, go up to at least 175. Leverage is your friend.

Gearing - I run a 2:1 ratio, 34X17. This gives a gear I can climb most hills with, and not spin out too much on rolling stuff. It's a nice balance. If you are doing alot of climbing, try a 34X18 or smaller. Lots of descending or sprints, or if you find yourself spinning out too fast on the flat lands, go bigger.
NOTES: The most important thing to remember is get a high quality chain, and gears and cogs WITHOUT ramps and other shift-friendly designs. You want the chain to stay put, it's going to get alot of pounding. Also, as far as cogs and chainrings go, the more teeth the better. More teeth means the wear and tear is applied across more area. Your gears will last much longer. 36X18 works great. (I use 34X17 because the resulting chain length worked for disc brakes, which I swapped for V's anyway)

Hubs. Cheapest are the BMX style freewheel hubs. They work great and are cheap to replace. Cassette style are lighter, more expensive, but offer better engagement. It's even possible on some to squeeze on 2-3 cogs, to give you the option of a few gears to choose.

Be careful choosing a disc SS setup. Some frames are more of a pain in the ass to set up because of the horizontal dropouts. Some even require partial or full removal of the caliper to get the rear wheel off. Lame!

Consider: wider bars. You will get a little more leverage when out of the saddle and really pulling up on the bars when climbing.

Make sure your saddle height is spot on. Too low is begging for knee blow out.

Realize your new bike is going to teach you humility. You WILL walk up some of those hills.


Welcome to the dark side, jump in.

[TreeSaw]

Options:

1) Take any frame you really like, and get a tensioner and drop it to one gear.

2) Buy a dedicated SS frame

Whichever you choose, you will notice right away that the bike is lighter than a multi geared bike. This gives you a little wiggle room for more durable parts.


Tips:

180mm cranks. If you normally run shorter cranks, like 170's, go up to at least 175. Leverage is your friend.

Gearing - I run a 2:1 ratio, 34X17. This gives a gear I can climb most hills with, and not spin out too much on rolling stuff. It's a nice balance. If you are doing alot of climbing, try a 34X18 or smaller. Lots of descending or sprints, or if you find yourself spinning out too fast on the flat lands, go bigger.
NOTES: The most important thing to remember is get a high quality chain, and gears and cogs WITHOUT ramps and other shift-friendly designs. You want the chain to stay put, it's going to get alot of pounding. Also, as far as cogs and chainrings go, the more teeth the better. More teeth means the wear and tear is applied across more area. Your gears will last much longer. 36X18 works great. (I use 34X17 because the resulting chain length worked for disc brakes, which I swapped for V's anyway)

Hubs. Cheapest are the BMX style freewheel hubs. They work great and are cheap to replace. Cassette style are lighter, more expensive, but offer better engagement. It's even possible on some to squeeze on 2-3 cogs, to give you the option of a few gears to choose.

Be careful choosing a disc SS setup. Some frames are more of a pain in the ass to set up because of the horizontal dropouts. Some even require partial or full removal of the caliper to get the rear wheel off. Lame!

Consider: wider bars. You will get a little more leverage when out of the saddle and really pulling up on the bars when climbing.

Make sure your saddle height is spot on. Too low is begging for knee blow out.

Realize your new bike is going to teach you humility. You WILL walk up some of those hills.


Welcome to the dark side, jump in.


Thanks for the tips...I generally run 170mm cranks and didn't think about changing size. I also tend to run narrower bars on my XC bike so that's good to know as well. Don't worry, I am prepared to learn humility and respect a few (many :think: ) hills. I am getting excited. Now I just have to decide if I should get a frame or re-build my old Trek hardtail.

[H8R]

Thanks for the tips...I generally run 170mm cranks and didn't think about changing size. I also tend to run narrower bars on my XC bike so that's good to know as well. Don't worry, I am prepared to learn humility and respect a few (many :think: ) hills. I am getting excited. Now I just have to decide if I should get a frame or re-build my old Trek hardtail.

What Trek is it?

I'd drop a coin on a Surly Singleator, and test the waters with that. Just shorten the chain and go 32X16 at first, and see how you like it.

I'll bet you never put the shifters and derailleurs back on it.

[Cash-Money]

if u decide to use the rek, i've got a singulator i'll sell ya cheap like

[trialsboy50]

yes, get some long cranks, I'm running 165mm XTR DH cranks, its painful, but I guess helpful right?

[TreeSaw]

What Trek is it?

I'd drop a coin on a Surly Singleator, and test the waters with that. Just shorten the chain and go 32X16 at first, and see how you like it.

I'll bet you never put the shifters and derailleurs back on it.
It's an older (late 90s) 850 Chro-Mo frame and I have a ridiculous Judy XL on it right now, but at the time it seemed awesome :rolleyes:

[H8R]

It's an older (late 90s) 850 Chro-Mo frame and I have a ridiculous Judy XL on it right now, but at the time it seemed awesome :rolleyes:

Perfect. Put a rigid fork on there, some fat tires (2.35) and convert to SS. You will fall in love with it.

[riderx]

Convert.

Then buy new once you are hooked.

Rigid fork, fat tires and an ENO rear wheel...

[MMcG]

T- Convert that Trek and just use the old derailleur on it as a tensioner!! You could even go fully rigid on the cheap too I suspect by just paying a visit to an LBS to see if they have any old rigid forks layin around.

[TreeSaw]

Perfect. Put a rigid fork on there, some fat tires (2.35) and convert to SS. You will fall in love with it.
That could work...I think I still have the original fork somewhere :think: And I seem to have a whole lot of 2.35" tires around my house ;)

[MMcG]

That could work...I think I still have the original fork somewhere :think: And I seem to have a whole lot of 2.35" tires around my house ;)


There ya go T! :thumb:

[TreeSaw]

There ya go T! :thumb:
Guess I know what my rainy weekend project is going to be...better get some more beers for the wrenchin' ;)

[jmvar]

It's an older (late 90s) 850 Chro-Mo frame and I have a ridiculous Judy XL on it right now, but at the time it seemed awesome :rolleyes:

Here is some inspiration, this was my first mountain bike my father bought me when I was in 8th grade. I am actually pretty proud that I still have it and use it more than my other 2 bikes which are a lot nicer. Your bike is probably very similar

I spent a total of $100 to convert and update the bike not including bar and stem I had laying around. $50 for used XT brakes, and $50 for used singleator and a couple of spacers and cogs.

[mcl2u2]

I love singlespeeding and will never go back geared, but you guys are hardcore with your rigid forks, v-brakes and fat tires. I would be sore for a week. I tried riding rigid once by locking my fork out. I guess it just takes a little getting used to.

And whoever it was talking about disc brakes and horizontal dropouts is oh so right. I bought a frame about a month ago and hate it for just that reason. Verticals and ebb for me thanks.

[TreeSaw]

Here is some inspiration, this was my first mountain bike my father bought me when I was in 8th grade. I am actually pretty proud that I still have it and use it more than my other 2 bikes which are a lot nicer. Your bike is probably very similar

I spent a total of $100 to convert and update the bike not including bar and stem I had laying around. $50 for used XT brakes, and $50 for used singleator and a couple of spacers and cogs.
Sweet :thumb: There's hope for my old bike yet! I was riding it on the trainer, but then I started locking out my Jekyll and riding that (as that's what I race) and it's been hanging up in the basement for months being neglected! I'll have to get some parts together and work on the build so I can join in the insanity or SS riding ;)

[scrublover]

Thanks for the tips.........re-build my old Trek hardtail.


use the trek. it's a frame you have, and one you are familiar with. convert it! you can set it up with some nice stuff; spend some decent money to do a good conversion, then once you are hooked.....

get yourself a nice SS specific frame, and swap all your parts. worked for me, and i think that's how a lot of riders with nice SS rides ended up with them.

[spoke80]

Convert.

Then buy new once you are hooked.

Rigid fork, fat tires and an ENO rear wheel...

Is the ENO specific to horizontal drop outs?

[BikeGeek]

Is the ENO specific to horizontal drop outs?

Nope, it's designed to use with vertical dropouts. With the ENO hub, you don't need a chain tensioner.

http://www.whiteind.com/ENO_web/eno-index.html

[TreeSaw]

Well, I haven't gotten the SS up and running yet, but my husband just got a beautiful Kona Cowan frame and we're going to build up our bikes together. I'm looking at trying to get a Cowan or perhaps a Chute to build up. Does anyone know if the dropouts are similar/same on these two models?

[spoke80]

Nope, it's designed to use with vertical dropouts. With the ENO hub, you don't need a chain tensioner.

http://www.whiteind.com/ENO_web/eno-index.html


Ok, that sucka is too rich for me. Which is a better tensioner the soulcraft or the rennen?

[BikeGeek]

Ok, that sucka is too rich for me. Which is a better tensioner the soulcraft or the rennen?

I've been using the Soulcraft for a couple of years now. It works great in "push" mode but tends to slip on tough climbs in "pull."

[spoke80]

I've been using the Soulcraft for a couple of years now. It works great in "push" mode but tends to slip on tough climbs in "pull."


Does anyone have any experience with the Rennen?

[BikeGeek]

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103605

There are a couple other threads on tensioners too, try searching the forum.

[spoke80]

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103605

There are a couple other threads on tensioners too, try searching the forum.


Thank you for your help with the info search. :thumb:

[CreeP]

Well, I haven't gotten the SS up and running yet, but my husband just got a beautiful Kona Cowan frame and we're going to build up our bikes together. I'm looking at trying to get a Cowan or perhaps a Chute to build up. Does anyone know if the dropouts are similar/same on these two models?

the cowan has a unique for kona dropout system.
all their other bikes, except their singlespeed bikes (which have plain jane horiz) have vertical dropouts.

horiz + disc is no problem if it's done right. post mount would help because it's a bit harder to align the wheel. I've got I.S. mounts and the only problem is that they were drilled for a center of the dropout axle position and not the short position, which is what I run.

[MMcG]

T- so your hubby is going to be riding Ralph's old Cowan?

I thought you wanted to go the lightweight SS route - if so, what about looking for a used Kona Unit or something along those lines?

A Chute frame will be kinds heavy and will require you to either use an eccentric hub or a chain tensioner of some sorts (unless there is the "magic" gear ratio that you can run without a tensioner).

[GumbaFish]

I dont know about the new chute but the old ones are standard vertical dropouts. I actually have a chute frame that I am building as a singlespeed, but of course I have to run a tensioner. Its not terribly heavy if you are big into weight, but its not terribly light either. I guess I'll let you know how it works out, that is if I can ever manage to get the headset pressed in...

[TreeSaw]

T- so your hubby is going to be riding Ralph's old Cowan?

I thought you wanted to go the lightweight SS route - if so, what about looking for a used Kona Unit or something along those lines?

A Chute frame will be kinds heavy and will require you to either use an eccentric hub or a chain tensioner of some sorts (unless there is the "magic" gear ratio that you can run without a tensioner).
Yeah, Sq-Earl is psyched about it too. Right now, I am thinking I want to build up a singlespeed to ride some XC, stunts and eventually dirt jumps with. If I enjoy it, then I will probably look into a lightweight XC singlespeed too.

[TreeSaw]

I dont know about the new chute but the old ones are standard vertical dropouts. I actually have a chute frame that I am building as a singlespeed, but of course I have to run a tensioner. Its not terribly heavy if you are big into weight, but its not terribly light either. I guess I'll let you know how it works out, that is if I can ever manage to get the headset pressed in...
Sweet. I am curious to see how it turns out. Really, I would love to get a small (no bigger than 15") Cowan rather inexpensively, but there don't seem to be any available right now. :( Keep me posted!

[GumbaFish]

I should get to the shop in a day or two to get the headset pressed, then I will build it up probably that day and have it going this weekend to hit some dj's and stuff. I'll let you know what I think after I get a ride in on it.

[Slider]

FYI - In my quest to build a single speed today I learned that Giant make a single speed specific frame!! Giant = afordable

[black noise]

I finally got my SS up and running after a lot of issues with the eccentric BB. I hate that thing. Horizontal dropouts are so much better, so much simpler.

On my P1 which has discs and horizontal dropouts, taking off the wheel is easy. Actually it's a bitch, but only because I have gears too. Some bikes are designed to have H dropouts and discs.

[TreeSaw]

I should get to the shop in a day or two to get the headset pressed, then I will build it up probably that day and have it going this weekend to hit some dj's and stuff. I'll let you know what I think after I get a ride in on it.
So, how's the set-up working? I think there's a frame posted in the buy/sell that is in my price range :thumb: I've been eyeing a Cowan, but it's a little out of my comfortable price range.

[GumbaFish]

Thanks for the reminder...I finished her a couple of days ago. I'm liking it so far, even though the bike is a bit of a franken build with a mix of spare and new parts I plan to slowly upgrade any of my old parts. I haven't taken it out on dj's or anything yet but the setup worked pretty well, and the chute frame really isn't that heavy so having only one gear didn't feel like a problem. But the frame is still beefy enough with the enlarged downtube and gusset that I feel it can handle anything I am going to throw at it. The only downside I will say is that for my model, the 99 version, there is little clearance for a large rear tire. That is my only gripe so far, so if you like really big tires you wont be able to run one in the rear. I can take a measurement back there and guestimate how large a tire will fit back there if ya want. Right now I am running a velociraptor in the back and that clears fine, but that is only a 2.1.

[TreeSaw]

Thanks for the reminder...I finished her a couple of days ago. I'm liking it so far, even though the bike is a bit of a franken build with a mix of spare and new parts I plan to slowly upgrade any of my old parts. I haven't taken it out on dj's or anything yet but the setup worked pretty well, and the chute frame really isn't that heavy so having only one gear didn't feel like a problem. But the frame is still beefy enough with the enlarged downtube and gusset that I feel it can handle anything I am going to throw at it. The only downside I will say is that for my model, the 99 version, there is little clearance for a large rear tire. That is my only gripe so far, so if you like really big tires you wont be able to run one in the rear. I can take a measurement back there and guestimate how large a tire will fit back there if ya want. Right now I am running a velociraptor in the back and that clears fine, but that is only a 2.1.
Sweet! I'm actually considering a '00 so maybe that will fit a larger tire? I usually run Maxxis Slow Reezay 2.35s. Thanks!

[MMcG]

T - are you considering SLOPE's frame? It certainly looks to be in fine shape.

[TreeSaw]

T - are you considering SLOPE's frame? It certainly looks to be in fine shape.
Yupper :thumb: I need to see if it has a replaceable drop out. If it does, I may be able to have one machined that will work beautifully with a SS setup (similar to what the Cowan frame offers).

[MMcG]

Is Ralph going to do the machining?

[TreeSaw]

Is Ralph going to do the machining?
My brother-in-law may be able to do it for me...if not, I could ask Instigator :sneaky:

[thegreatlanfrit]

Thanks for the tips...I generally run 170mm cranks and didn't think about changing size. I also tend to run narrower bars on my XC bike so that's good to know as well. Don't worry, I am prepared to learn humility and respect a few (many :think: ) hills. I am getting excited. Now I just have to decide if I should get a frame or re-build my old Trek hardtail.

a buddy of mine showed up on my doorstep today with a surprise gift. he made a SS for me out of old parts.. it was an old trek 850 frame which he cut off the drop-outs and welded horizontal ones in. the rest the parts were either lying around his basement or my garage.
it's a fun little toy :)

he's been trying to convert me for about a year now... mighta done it.

[TreeSaw]

a buddy of mine showed up on my doorstep today with a surprise gift. he made a SS for me out of old parts.. it was an old trek 850 frame which he cut off the drop-outs and welded horizontal ones in. the rest the parts were either lying around his basement or my garage.
it's a fun little toy :)

he's been trying to convert me for about a year now... mighta done it.

Sweet. If it's the green (with purple graphics) CroMo frame, I have the same one...my first real mountain bike :thumb: