Concealed carry anyone?

[mhpoole]

Didn't want to hijack a thread so this is a continuation.


when I turned 21 I also got my C.W.P. and carreid for years. Until one day when somehitng kinda crazy happened. Dont get me wrong Im pro gun, but unless your a cop. Carrying a gun is a dangerous thing, either to you or thge other person that will sue you or his family will come after you. I read alot about it, and then after some one tried to break into my house and steal my guns (all 15 of them) I changed my ways. but more power to you. :thumb:

Bibs,

I carry my handgun because the police can't be everywhere at the same time. We do not have the luxury of knowing when bad things may happen to us only the person or persons wanting to cause harm know that. I carry my handgun to protect my family and loved ones from grave bodily harm or death. I have extensive training in concealed carry with on going education and training classes every year. I carry my handgun because I choose NOT to be a victim. I'm sure some of you may have heard this saying but here goes "Its better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6".

Carrying a hundgun is a HUGE responsibilty and should never be taken lightly. If you do choose to carry take lots of classes (Oregon Firearms Academy) is a very good school by Eugene. I respect your decission to not carry as well as you respecting my right to carry. I know that you may think only the police are responsible enough to carry a firearm in public. People who carry full time usually have a different outlook on things. Because we carry, if you cut us off in traffic we will usually wave you by. We ignore confrontation and walk away at all costs. We don't get into fist fights or go looking for trouble. We are usually very aware of our surroundings and tend to be very alert.

"Carrying a gun is a dangerous thing, either to you or thge other person that will sue you or his family will come after you.

I think I have stated that carrying a gun should not be taken lightly to give someone a power trip when they are younger. I can tell you this, If a CHL holder has to use his gun to protect a life he will be sued by someone. It will cost upwards of $20,000 at a minimum even if you are justified in taking a life. With that being said lots of people shy away. Your firearm should only be used if you or your loved ones are facing grave harm or death. This means if you do nothing or have nothing to defend yourself with someone you love or you yourself are going to die. Is that worth 20,000, you bet it is. Would I yank out my gun and yell "FREEZE SUCKA" if someone is breaking into a car, not at all.

Maybe some of you have heard of Mark Wilson he was recently killed by a crazed guy with a illegal full auto ak that was at the courthouse in Texas. Mark was a CHL holder and drew his weapon and hit the guy 2 times before getting shot himself and dying. The guy later died from his wounds. How many lives did he save by this selfless act? I would have liked to think I would have done the same thing but hopefully would have found cover first and lived to tell about it. Bottom line is cops can't be everywhere at the time a violent crime happens. Take it for whats its worth and Ill see you guys on the trails. :cool:

Enough about guns,

I get my new bike in a week and I am very excited. Its a 2001 Bullit with XTR and should be alot of fun

[Toshi]

Maybe some of you have heard of Mark Wilson he was recently killed by a crazed guy with a illegal full auto ak that was at the courthouse in Texas. Mark was a CHL holder and drew his weapon and hit the guy 2 times before getting shot himself and dying. The guy later died from his wounds. How many lives did he save by this selfless act? I would have liked to think I would have done the same thing but hopefully would have found cover first and lived to tell about it. Bottom line is cops can't be everywhere at the time a violent crime happens. Take it for whats its worth and Ill see you guys on the trails. :cool:
interesting points, but your mark wilson story seems different from the one the news outfits are reporting ( http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=997567&tw=wn_wire_story )

When gunfire erupted in the Tyler town square, Mark Alan Wilson didn't hesitate: He grabbed a Colt .45 handgun and charged downstairs from his apartment to confront the shooter.

[...]

Arroyo fatally shot Wilson with an AK-47 semiautomatic weapon.

[...]

Police shot and killed Arroyo following a chase that lasted several miles.

[...]

Wilson's actions have drawn hearty praise from gun advocates who say he probably saved more lives than just Arroyo's son. But gun control groups say Wilson's death proves that carrying a gun increases a person's chances of getting killed.

[mhpoole]

Since about 90% of the media is Democrat you have to expect stories to be spun a certain way. There is no way they are going to praise CHL carriers its just not going to happen. Not sure if Mark Wilson had any training or not but he did violate one the basic rules in a firefight. SEEK COVER

[mhpoole]

More comming out on this story.

From the 3/3/05 Tyler Morning Telegraph:

Michael Mosley, 42, of Winona, TX, a security officer with Southwestern Security Services, Inc., stationed in the U.S. Attorney's downtown Tyler office, has been identified from photos taken at the scene.

Mosley, speaking through his boss in Houston, says that he did not fire his weapon.

According to witnesses, Mosley pulled up in his car during the shooting, exitted the driver's side door, drew his weapon, and laid across the hood of his car, pointing his sidearm in the direction of the shooter.

According to Nelson Clyde, III, publisher of the Tyler newspaper, he saw three men engaged in a gunfight from his 2nd floor vantage point overlooking the shooting scene. Clyde said that it appeared that Mosely fired on the shooter, distracting him. At this point, Wilson, who died in the exchange, took the shooter under fire, was shot and fatally wounded. After killing Wilson, the shooter then again took Mosley under fire.

Other witnesses report that during the exchange, Mosley took positions across the hood and on the ground with his weapon aimed at the shooter.

Witnesses suggest that the first people to take the shooter under fire were in fact these two civilians.

By this time, the area was swarming with law enforcement officers. The shooter wounded three LEOs and calmly drove from the area. After about 2-3 miles, the shooter, stopped his truck in the middle of the street, stepped out and began firing at the pursuing LEOs.

Reports say that two officers using AR-type rifles shot and killed the shooter with wounds to either the head and/or neck.

The shooter's weapon, a MAK-90 is being traced by ATF.

[mhpoole]

More...

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1994&dept_id=227937&newsid=14032708&PAG=461&rfi=9

[thesacrifice]

I carry sometimes because of my occupation. I carry sometimes because people do and have been assaulted while waiting at redlights, walking through a parking lot at night or walking in on a burglary in progress...

[Certified Drunk]

Where did this come from?

Anyway, guns dont kill people! stupid people kill people.
On that note cigarette's kill 1000 times more people than guns do.

[evilbob]

Touchy topic from any given perspective. I will add I have had no problems myself in the 15+ years I have carried. I have had the need for business and basic protection in some areas I have had to be in three states. I know several others that carry and they are some of the most ethicly responsible and safety concious people I have ever met. The few I have run across that flash the fact they are licensed by displaying for minor cause, threaten action to bully others or are just obviously unsafe with their responsibility I personally make it a point the license is ultimately revoked and not issued to that individual again. For people who are concerned about people like me, well I am concerned about them to. Maybe the worried who aren't armed should ban rocks, as I am more likely (as are my friends) to just pick up a rock and hit you with that rather than ever draw a firearm. Never drink and carry, never carry in anger, and never point at something you can't afford to lose forever (any life) unless left with absolutly no choice. I also don't buy into those who have weapons for protection who haven't trained with them and don't practice. Those people are dangerous.

[bibs]

Im not saying that carring is bad, and I agree with what you say. But the stats of a man who carries VS. the man that is illegal and started teh "conflict" are not good. I dont want to be a victim, but since I stopped carring I have never been in a situation where I had to worry about it. I could go on and explian my whole story but its not worth your time(and Id get bored half way through) :D Guns are fun and I was raised around them and know it all about them. I just feel for me, I dont carry anymore after I almost pulled my gun on a guy for stabbing a harmless victim. I almost was a police officer. But like I said, to each their own...If weever meet and you are carring..I would not care at all..I dont get offened..I just learned a different lesson. thats all..guns are fun! ;)

[bibs]

oh yea, what bike are you getting? :D

[Cash-Money]

i just finished watching trailer park boys and there was a guy flashing his gun around and getting up in everyone's face with it. then i read this. i know personally a few people that carry, and i never knew untill i saw then take jackets off after almost a year of knowing them. most people that choose to carry are mature enough to know that it's not a symbol, or a status thing, it's not a shiny belt buckle. it's kept concealed, and probobly never taken out in public. it's there as an absolute worst case senerio option. I myself will carry when i'm older, and undrestand what it means to do so.

[mhpoole]

oh yea, what bike are you getting? :D

2001 Bullit with XTR goodies. It will be my first real bike in a long time.


Yes guns are alot of fun to go out with your buddies and shoot. I hope most people understand that carrying concealed is a whole other ballgame. Im not sure if I would really carry while riding trails maybe street, but I dont want to fall on that side. That would be very bad indeed.

[largextracheese]

HMMMMM??? I relate the carrying of a gun to a friend of mine. He always talks about this fight, and that fight that he got into. Everytime he says, he didn't start it. He happened into it. He's been in so many that it has become a joke when he brings it up. He definitely plays a role in every fight or situation, even though he doesn't think so. Have most of you been in multiple bloody fights? Probably not. Carrying a gun everyday, I relate because, with a gun all the time you tend to 'happen' into situations moreso than a non carrying individual. I think more than not, that these people want the confrontation on some level. You may say no, but it tends to be more primal than you'd expect with some folks. It actually scares me to see people packin'. Life is full of risks. It just seems that making sure you're seatbelt is on is a more sensible attempt at protecting a life as an example. Chances are that the gun toter will get run over or trip and hit their head before that gun will get pulled for a legitimate reason. It's overkill. There are better things to worry about. My 2 cents. Don't hate me.

[mhpoole]

Sounds to me like your friend is looking for a reason. Most serious CHL holders lead a normal life and don't put themselves in situations where confrontations happen often. I dont know you or your friend but thats just what it seems like. Also sounds like he could benifit from some training or some maturity and understand the gravity of what COULD happen if he gets involved :nono: . Most times its better to be a good witness than a hero. :thumb:

[clancy98]

sorry to say your friend is far from the typical person with a CC license around here or anywhere I've seen for that matter.

[PsychO!1]

It's not the properly trained, level headed, responsable, concealed carrying citizens I'm worried about.....It's the rest of them. I'm not sure which is the majority. It seems like the morons are the majority, but I think that's only because they are more visible. If you are good gun carrying citizen....nobody should ever know you have one. I wish all gun owners were required to take proper training.

[Tully]

I have really mixed feelings on the whole issue. Would I want a gun for the protection of myself and loved ones? Most likely. However, although I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to think this might be a problem, I am, quite honestly, a bit frightened by the fact that I would even have the potential to do something I would regret. Everyone knows one cannot think completely rationally when under such sudden, extreme stress. Again, not that I would use it incorrectly; anyone who knows me well would agree that I absolutely hate violence, even as a last resort. Were I to shoot someone, even if they were threatening a loved one with a gun, I don't know if I could ever forgive myself. But on the contrary, it would be even harder to forgive myself had the said loved one been murdered.

I just don't know.

[thesacrifice]

It's not the properly trained, level headed, responsable, concealed carrying citizens I'm worried about.....It's the rest of them. I'm not sure which is the majority. It seems like the morons are the majority, but I think that's only because they are more visible. If you are good gun carrying citizen....nobody should ever know you have one. I wish all gun owners were required to take proper training.

sames to be said about a drivers license... anythings deadly when used negligently

[mhpoole]

I have really mixed feelings on the whole issue. Would I want a gun for the protection of myself and loved ones? Most likely. However, although I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to think this might be a problem, I am, quite honestly, a bit frightened by the fact that I would even have the [I]potential/I] to do something I would regret. Everyone knows one cannot think completely rationally when under such sudden, extreme stress. Again, not that I would use it incorrectly; anyone who knows me well would agree that I absolutely hate violence, even as a last resort. Were I to shoot someone, even if they were threatening a loved one with a gun, I don't know if I could ever forgive myself. But on the contrary, it would be even harder to forgive myself had the said loved one been murdered.

I just don't know.

I can honestly say if someone were about to cause such harm or death to me or a loved one I would not hesitate to end their life. This person has no regard for life and wants yours, for what? It is normal to second guess after the fact, but thats why you need training and plenty of it. So if THAT day ever did come you would have the proper training to protect the ones you love.

For someone to say "I dont think I could do it" belive me if someone is going to end your life you would probably change your mind quickly. Not to get to graphic or anything but I think if someone were sticking you with a knife over and over and you still say you wouldn't shoot its probably best just to lay there and take it until your dead. You better hope you have a friend with a good head on his shoulders and a CHL otherwise its over for you. I just cant understand that type of mentality and probably is the true definition of "sheeple".

Short for "Sheep people." A member of the mindless masses that shows charactaristics shared with sheep, including limited mental capacity, as well as showing herd behavior, depending on the views and opinions of the people around them. Synonym: Stupid people Antonym: Individuals


sheeple
short for sheep people

A marketing term used to describe people who act in direct reaction to saturation advertising, meaning they are the ones who immediately buy the fad products or trendy clothes to go along with the crowd. It is a nickname given to those whose purchasing habits make up demographics of 80 percent

A political term, generally used in reference to the American people, referring to those who follow the flock rather than take the time to think for themselves in any capacity.

[mhpoole]

MODS... could you please move to correct forum. FNG here can't read and follow instructions..

[largextracheese]

My friend is an example only. You missed the point. Most people that pack, are on some level looking for a confrontation. You can't grab your gun every morning off the nightstand, slip it into the holster without contemplating whether this is the day, or just be reminded of what the gun represents. In my mind, it seems that the more a person is reminded (by looking at the gun for example), the more he or she gains a mentality that revolves around it. For example, The young kids in the Arab world surrounded by rants about war, hatred, etc. The more they are reminded or exposed to that sort of belief, the more they think it is normal and right. Is it right? Not at all. Training you say? No amount of training can reverse an inate sense to protect oneself. Protecting yourself is in everyones mind. It's normal. Reminding yourself everyday by carrying a gun in your pants is not. IMO.

Peace Brotha's!!!!!!

[ioscope]

Guns is bad mmkay.

Actually, I went to school this Monday and found out that some guy was pointing as gun at me last weekend, and I didn't even know. He was threatening the car though, not me specifically. I think I must have given him a bad look for having a confederate flag hitch receiver cover, and a redneck truck.

I don't think people need guns 'cos "a cop won't always be around", how many times were you in a situation in your life where pulling a gun could've helped?? Seriously?

[Honeywell]

I don't think people need guns 'cos "a cop won't always be around", how many times were you in a situation in your life where pulling a gun could've helped?? Seriously?

True, the statistics are quite low for being the victim of an attack, and if you do happen to be involved in one all chances are it's a family member or close friend who will be the attacker.

That being said, all it takes is one time and your life could be gone. Better to carry a self defense weapon and never need it then need one and not have it. And if you do trust the police to protect you, think again. Even most cops will tell you it simply can't be done. If they're in the right place at the right time you may get lucky, but otherwise you're on your own to defend yourself.

[Tully]

I can honestly say if someone were about to cause such harm or death to me or a loved one I would not hesitate to end their life. This person has no regard for life and wants yours, for what? It is normal to second guess after the fact, but thats why you need training and plenty of it. So if THAT day ever did come you would have the proper training to protect the ones you love.

For someone to say "I dont think I could do it" belive me if someone is going to end your life you would probably change your mind quickly.

I didn't say I wouldn't pull the trigger, I just said that I would hate the feeling of having killed someone, but not as much as the feeling of having watched as a loved one died. So in a word, yes. I would do it if necessary. Violence (not Hollywood-style, but real violence) bothers me; it's just that simple, and some people don't understand that. As for the whole 'sheeple' thing, my opinion is just that: not what people would have you think (that goes for both sides of the issue), but how I feel.

I do think, though, that the government must pass another assualt weaopns ban. Letting it expire was completely irresponsible, and could not possibly result in anything good.

[Silver]

I can think of about 100 situations in my life where adding a gun into the equation would have made the situation worse or much worse.

I can't think of any where a gun being introduced would have made the situation better or less volatile. Personally, I don't live in an area where I feel that I need to be ready to kill a human being every time I leave the house.

If I did, I'd spend money on moving instead of on a handgun, but that's just me...

[Skookum]

Well, that fella today, you shot him alright.

H-hell yeah. I killed the hell out of him... three shots... he was takin' a sh-sh-**** an'... an'...

The kid is shaking, becoming hysterical, and Munny hands the bottle back.

Take a drink, kid.

(breaking down, crying) Oh Ch-ch-christ it don't... it don't seem... real... how he's DEAD... How he ain't gonna breathe no more... n-n-never. Or the other one neither... On account of... of just... pullin' a trigger.

It's a hell of a thing, ain't it, killin' a man. You take everythin' he's got... an' everythin' he's ever gonna have...

Well, I gu-guess they had it comin.

We all got it comin kid.

[mhpoole]

Tully,

Im not going to get to far into the semi-auto rifles or "Assault rifles" as the media has called them because this is hardly the crowd that for a reasonable discussion on the subject. I will however say that banning a weapon based on a couple features like a bayonet lug and a folding stock is pure insanity and could only come from the left. These weapons fire one time each time the trigger is depressed just like any other weapon. Trying to ban a weapon from the mass of gun lovers because of a few idiots is again idiotic. Should we ban cars because of drunk drivers? Should we ban airplanes, alcohol, cigarettes, etc. Put it into perspective and just because you don't like guns does't mean there aren't a lot of people who enjoy shooting.

You know what gun kills more people than any? A .22 cal rifle which is a rifle kids start to shoot when they are young, should we ban those also? Handguns kill WAY more people than any type of semi-auto rifle. Do you see a ban comming on handguns, no way the public would never have it. Ahhhh but the EVIL assault rifle "looks" scary bbaaaaaa bbaaaaaaa they will follow. You know alot of people use these guns for hunting, they are accurate and very durable and can only have a 5 round magazine while hunting. I personally dont use one for hunting, but I will not have some liberal telling me otherwise. The ban expired because most reasonable thinking people realize it did NOTHING to reduce crime.

[mhpoole]

I can think of about 100 situations in my life where adding a gun into the equation would have made the situation worse or much worse.

I can't think of any where a gun being introduced would have made the situation better or less volatile. Personally, I don't live in an area where I feel that I need to be ready to kill a human being every time I leave the house.

If I did, I'd spend money on moving instead of on a handgun, but that's just me...

If you can think of a 100 situations where a adding a gun would have made it worse you shouldn't own a gun. There should only be one situation and that would be if you life is about to end. To have the mindset that a violent crime can only happen in unsafe areas is indeed niave. :help:

[Tully]

Trying to ban a weapon from the mass of gun lovers because of a few idiots is again idiotic. Should we ban cars because of drunk drivers? Should we ban airplanes, alcohol, cigarettes, etc. Put it into perspective and just because you don't like guns does't mean there aren't a lot of people who enjoy shooting.

That's why I have mixed feelings about it. If they were only used for hunting/sport shooting/other harmless stuff, I wouldn't care; it's just that they're not. But although I say that, I drive a car, and I want cars allowed because I use them resopnsibly, and like you pointed out, the idiots ruin it for everyone. If I were a gun user, as I am a car user, I'm sure my opinion would change in their favor. And as for the assualt weapons thing, I was under the impression that assualt weapons were full-automatic, and I was not aware they're used for hunting. Now that I know they're not, I understand why the ban didn't and wouldn't help anything.

[Silver]

If you can think of a 100 situations where a adding a gun would have made it worse you shouldn't own a gun. There should only be one situation and that would be if you life is about to end. To have the mindset that a violent crime can only happen in unsafe areas is indeed niave. :help:

You totally missed my point.

[Guntruck]

Guns are for the weak. I can't imagine living life in so in fear of being harmed that I'd want to carry a weapon to protect myself. I don't have a family but I can't see my views changing if I did. If your so scared of being shot stay home. Don't drive a car or fly. I sure as hell wouldn't be riding mtn bikes, much too dangerous. I'm not scared of being shot, if it happened it happened. I doubt I'd look back on it and think, "Damn, I'm dead I really wish I had a gun then to kill that guy". I don't think you should want kill anybody ever in any circumstance even if they're trying to kill you. I'd rather take my chances with my bare fists or maybe a nice easton baseball bat if one was available. I'm not all religous or anything I just think it's for the weak. I think guns designed to kill humans should be outlawed but thats just my oppinion. It would sure be alot more entertaining to see criminals on COPS running around with hunting rifles.

[BSEVEER]

I don't really care if people carry but if they are really so concerned with the safety of themselves and their loved ones why don't they insist that everyone in their car wear a helmet including themselves since they are much more likely to die in a car accident than by some random crime.

[Changleen]

sames to be said about a drivers license... anythings deadly when used negligentlyHowever guns are unique in that they are designed specifically to kill. They have no other purpose.

[Honeywell]

I'm not scared of being shot, if it happened it happened. I doubt I'd look back on it and think, "Damn, I'm dead I really wish I had a gun then to kill that guy". I don't think you should want kill anybody ever in any circumstance even if they're trying to kill you.

So your life carries no value to you? If you were ever in a situation in which your life is in danger and you could do something about it, you'd just stand by and say it's fate? The last statement really confuses me though. If someone is beating the crap out of you with every intention to kill you, you're telling me you would have NO feelings of retaliation, anger, or rage to the point where you'd want to take his life?

[Guntruck]

So your life carries no value to you? If you were ever in a situation in which your life is in danger and you could do something about it, you'd just stand by and say it's fate? The last statement really confuses me though. If someone is beating the crap out of you with every intention to kill you, you're telling me you would have NO feelings of retaliation, anger, or rage to the point where you'd want to take his life?

No, you missed my whole point. I would definitley want to stop them and hurt them as much as possible. Hence the Easton. But I don't want to kill anybody, ever. I guess if you were to ask... It's either you or him? I'd say me. I suppose I just dont think I would want to go through life living with the fact that I'd knowingly killed somebody. I've never been in that situation so who knows what I'd really do. Everyone dies, I'd rather get shot than shoot somebody and die of colon cancer.

[Tully]

But I don't want to kill anybody, ever...I suppose I just dont think I would want to go through life living with the fact that I'd knowingly killed somebody. I've never been in that situation so who knows what I'd really do.

That's pretty much how I feel. Like I said before, the only feeling worse than killing someone would be watching them kill someone in cold blood.

I think carrying a stun gun might be a better idea. No one dies (well, a couple people have, but those are freak incidents), yet the attacker is held off. Apparently, the really high-quality ones work from up to 15' away, but they cost $400-$600. If any cops are reading this, from roughly what distance are most people shot?

[genpowell71]

Here's an easy solution for all of us. 1) Dont put yourself in a situation that would make it nessecary to need a gun. 2) If you are in that situation, change your surroundings. 3) If your SOOOO paranoid about being jacked that you need to carry a hand cannon, you need to move up north to like Montana or N Dakota and live on a mountain top with your wife and 2 kids. That way you dont have to worry about needing to use all your various weapons on the guy trying to take your wallet. Now all you need to worry about is the ATF coming to knock on your door...

[largextracheese]

Exactly, simple as that. Paranoia will destroy ya!!!

[mhpoole]

Here's an easy solution for all of us. 1) Dont put yourself in a situation that would make it nessecary to need a gun. 2) If you are in that situation, change your surroundings. 3) If your SOOOO paranoid about being jacked that you need to carry a hand cannon, you need to move up north to like Montana or N Dakota and live on a mountain top with your wife and 2 kids. That way you dont have to worry about needing to use all your various weapons on the guy trying to take your wallet. Now all you need to worry about is the ATF coming to knock on your door...

If you think a guy trying to take your wallet is the same as someone trying to take your life you are sadly mistaken. However if that same guy takes your wallet and then after leaps and slits your wife or girlfriends throat while your shakin in your boots you're S.O.L. Obviously you dont understand the difference or don't think it can happen to you. While some of you may think CHL holders are looking for any excuse to pull our weapons and show how tough we are it is the oposite in reality. We simply have the tools and if properly trained may have a better outcome than a person with nothing. We choose not to be a victim and simply lay there and die. This is probably what you think most CHL holders wet dream situation. http://www.the-roberts.info/gallery/albums/GTFriends/collateral.mpg

Anyone who thinks changing your surroundings is going to keep you safe is also being naive. While staying alert of your surroundings you may have a better chance of identifying your attacker if it should happen without tools or the training you mine as well just stand there and close your eyes. And yes if we knew when and where an attacker would attack it would make it easy wouldn't it. The problem is you don't know when or where it could happen.

Statistics may say you have a better chance of being hit by a car most likely if you stand in the road. You might also think by never walking in the road your safe. And while you're in your little bubble you don't see the drunk guy avoiding cars and slamming onto the sidewalk right behind you. For those people who think CHL holders are paranoid, you might try thinking outside the box for once and you may have your eyes opened to reality.

[mhpoole]

That's pretty much how I feel. Like I said before, the only feeling worse than killing someone would be watching them kill someone in cold blood.

I think carrying a stun gun might be a better idea. No one dies (well, a couple people have, but those are freak incidents), yet the attacker is held off. Apparently, the really high-quality ones work from up to 15' away, but they cost $400-$600. If any cops are reading this, from roughly what distance are most people shot?

Stats say most gun fights are between 5 to 7 feet. The magic number for stopping an attacker is 21ft. That means if an attacker is running full speed at you with a bat, knife etc and you confront him at 21ft you may have a chance of surviving if you have a gun and are trained. There was a story where a husband and wife were having a dispute. They were in the kitchen they wife grabbed a kitchen knife and husband had his gun .357 and as she charged him he shot her 6 times. Before she died he needed 400 stitches for his wounds and lived.

One reason she may have still got to him is he was not properly trained on where to shoot or didn't train for failure to stop drills. It is possible to make an attacker stop instantly if you have the shot. An example is 2 shots to center mass and if attacker is still upright, you go for pelvis or head without getting to graphic. Handguns are poor for stopping an attacker in most cases unless the person is trained on where to shoot, 9 out of 10 people survive a gunfight when getting shot.

[genpowell71]

If you think a guy trying to take your wallet is the same as someone trying to take your life you are sadly mistaken. However if that same guy takes your wallet and then after leaps and slits your wife or girlfriends throat while your shakin in your boots you're S.O.L. Obviously you dont understand the difference or don't think it can happen to you. While some of you may think CHL holders are looking for any excuse to pull our weapons and show how tough we are it is the oposite in reality. We simply have the tools and if properly trained may have a better outcome than a person with nothing. We choose not to be a victim and simply lay there and die. This is probably what you think most CHL holders wet dream situation. http://www.the-roberts.info/gallery/albums/GTFriends/collateral.mpg

Anyone who thinks changing your surroundings is going to keep you safe is also being naive. While staying alert of your surroundings you may have a better chance of identifying your attacker if it should happen without tools or the training you mine as well just stand there and close your eyes. And yes if we knew when and where an attacker would attack it would make it easy wouldn't it. The problem is you don't know when or where it could happen.

Statistics may say you have a better chance of being hit by a car most likely if you stand in the road. You might also think by never walking in the road your safe. And while you're in your little bubble you don't see the drunk guy avoiding cars and slamming onto the sidewalk right behind you. For those people who think CHL holders are paranoid, you might try thinking outside the box for once and you may have your eyes opened to reality.

Say what you will, the law of averages is still on my side. Besides, if your on a street in a busy city, you SHOULD be watching your surroundings. Does the average person give a f*uck what goes on around him? No. He's more concerned with his stock portfolio or what bar he/she is going to tonight. And yes to think that changing your surroundings makes you completely safe is ludicrious at best. BUT it will do more for making you safer than to just walk around the rundown urban areas. To think that ANYONE in this day and age is completely safe is nothing more than wishful thinking.
Am I against the CCW? Most certainly not. I own a couple Kimber .45s and on occasion (long trips, late at night) I do carry one. But to carry one just because I can? Sorry, no thanks.

[Jr_Bullit]

K - I have a question for y'all then...

So far, I don't think any ladies have yet responded or participated in this thread. I would be curious to know the number of women that carry concealed guns/mace/or other form of self-defense (besides knowing how to gouge someone's eyes out and kick em where it counts).

This is a debate I have pretty frequently...and my sweetie has been supportive as I try to think of ways to be more confident in my ability to defend myself. I'm not a big person (yes yes, hence the mods title for me ;) ), and I travel a lot, alone for my company as their trainer.

Last year I was in New Orleans on Fat Tuesday for a series of classes I was teaching in AL and LA...I had no casual clothes with me, just suits, and went out on the street in the French Quarter where my hotel was to get a bite to eat. Well, on the way home from my dinner, book and keys in hand, I had to walk back to the hotel. The street was essentially empty but for bums and people in the shadows, and the revelers were back at least a full block or more away.

Hate to say it, but the 'if' has weighed on my mind since then. 'If' anything were to happen a) I'd have no form of self-defense really and b) who would take notice. Apathy in others is a trait I fear and hate.

But the flip side of the coin is, 'if' I had a gun, would it have mattered? Most likely any attacker would grab me when I wasn't looking or prepared, and with the kind of cash flow I have - I seriously doubt it's worth my life or sanity to protect my purse...

So, I'm curious what the ladies think on this subject. I go back and forth between the desire to have "something" I know would stop a would be attacker or change a threatening situation into my favor, and the preference to not be in a situation I would regret the rest of my life...

Anyone have any statistics on women who have been victims of an attack, the number that carried a concealed weapon, the number that successfully used that concealed weapon to protect themselves?

[mhpoole]

"Am I against the CCW? Most certainly not. I own a couple Kimber .45s and on occasion (long trips, late at night) I do carry one. But to carry one just because I can? Sorry, no thanks."

Im glad you think bad things will only happen when your on long trips late at night. If we could pick the time and place wouldn't that be nice. :stupid:

[largextracheese]

Wow. I'm glad I'm reading this post afterall. It really has opened my eyes as to why we have such a violent society. People carrying guns around just for the heck of it. Kinda like a keychain....... not linked to keys to open doors, but an object to close the door on lives. Too bad so many people live in fear. Living in fear is not living.

[Silver]

"Am I against the CCW? Most certainly not. I own a couple Kimber .45s and on occasion (long trips, late at night) I do carry one. But to carry one just because I can? Sorry, no thanks."

Im glad you think bad things will only happen when your on long trips late at night. If we could pick the time and place wouldn't that be nice. :stupid:

You eat healthy, right? Always wear seatbelts, fly instead of drive, and wear a helmet all the time? Anti-oxidants. No preservatives. Didn't drive as a teenage boy. And, perhaps most importantly, you managed to select parents that had genes for longevity, right?

Now, if the genes for paranoia and longevity happen to overlap, that may help to explain this thread...

[valve bouncer]

When you get this gun do you also get a ten gallon hat and spurs and get to say "Howdy" a lot? Just askin'.........

[ALEXIS_DH]

wait. all this is naive. all pro-gun stances assume that when everybody start packign they will not modify enviroment variables.

lets say we all join the NRA, and we all carry guns with us for "protection".

there is a similar situation going on in the ghettos os Caracas, Venezuela. everybody is packing for protection. the wettest dream of the nra, entire communities where even grannies are packing. must be safety heaven!!!

but does that really makes people safe?
dont the guettos in Caracas have one of the highest crime and murder rates in south america?

you know why is that??

its because thieves SWITCH tactics. once everybody knows everybody is packing, they just switch tactics.
they give up the old and uncertain "aim and give me your wallet" in favor of less risky tactics for themselves.

they just shoot you upfront, without any warning, (so you dont have the chance to shoot back) then they take the wallet, or your 100 dollars sneakers of your dead body. just like they did in Caracas when everybody knew everybody started packing.

dont underestimate thieves. once everybody start packign, enviroment will respond with new (and usually more extreme and life-costly) tactics to this.

[clancy98]

laughable

[BSEVEER]

I wonder if I could get a gun rack for my bike like Bobby Hill.

[genpowell71]

I wonder if I could get a gun rack for my bike like Bobby Hill.

Depends, are you getting the machine gun rack or just the standard rifle rack? If you get the machine gun, you get the ammo carriers with it

[genpowell71]

When you get this gun do you also get a ten gallon hat and spurs and get to say "Howdy" a lot? Just askin'.........

YOu dont get the hat till you shoot a bystander

[genpowell71]

"Am I against the CCW? Most certainly not. I own a couple Kimber .45s and on occasion (long trips, late at night) I do carry one. But to carry one just because I can? Sorry, no thanks."

Im glad you think bad things will only happen when your on long trips late at night. If we could pick the time and place wouldn't that be nice. :stupid:

Never once did I insinuate that bad things only happen at night. I think you need to stop reading into everything

[Changleen]

wait. all this is naive. all pro-gun stances assume that when everybody start packign they will not modify enviroment variables.Most of them can't spell it even... :nopity:

[manimal]

You eat healthy, right? Always wear seatbelts, fly instead of drive, and wear a helmet all the time? Anti-oxidants. No preservatives. Didn't drive as a teenage boy. And, perhaps most importantly, you managed to select parents that had genes for longevity, right?

Now, if the genes for paranoia and longevity happen to overlap, that may help to explain this thread...


wow, i forgot..the OC really IS like the tv show! if only you had x-ray vision and could see how many fools there are out there that are armed with some form of deadly weapon and intend to use it at the drop of a hat. heck, especially on a standoff-ish leftist like yourself silver.

anyone that thinks a person is simply paranoid for carrying a gun obviously has led a sheltered life. come hang w/ me at my job for a few days and see how many guns/knives and other dangerous weapons i get off of people. and then correlate that info into how many of those persons were arrested for violent crimes, and then ask them why they committed the crime. a common answer is "because he disrespected me". ummmmkay....so you stabbed him in the head because he disrespected you?

most people don't see this side of society, they are generally sheltered from it by location or stature. however, from the moment you realize that there are A LOT of people out there that believe killing you and taking your wallet is no different to them than running a stop sign.....you start to realize how unsafe we all really are.

live healthy, exercise, eat well......get in a car wreck and die healthy.

live healthy, exercise, eat well.......have someone attempt to kidnap your 4 yr old daughter or use her as a shield after robbing a bank and spend the rest of your life wondering if you might have been able to prevent it? i'll take the car wreck. we're all gonna die someday....but i refuse to let harm come to my family as i stand by and do nothing. as a cop, i know that we probably won't be there when stuff happens...we're more of a reconciliation crew than a preventive crew.....so protect yourself.

cch is obviously not for everyone. we get people down here that will get the permit and start showing off to the crowd and will get involved in stuff they don't need to be involved with. fortunately, here in NC, we have a statute that considers that behavior as "going armed to the terror of the public". it's an arrestable offense and the gun is seized. most of the folks that do carry are very responsible and don't flaunt it and i'd much rather have a level headed citizen with a gun than the thugs, but ......the thugs have more guns than normal citizens could ever imagine.

[Silver]

anyone that thinks a person is simply paranoid for carrying a gun obviously has led a sheltered life. come hang w/ me at my job for a few days and see how many guns/knives and other dangerous weapons i get off of people. and then correlate that info into how many of those persons were arrested for violent crimes, and then ask them why they committed the crime. a common answer is "because he disrespected me". ummmmkay....so you stabbed him in the head because he disrespected you?


You should not be allowed to use the word correlate in a sentence until you learn what sample bias is.

[manimal]

hmmm, must be just your neck of the woods.

check out Kennesaw, GA.....made an ordinance REQUIRING all residents to own a gun and their violent crime rate was 4 times less the very next year.

here's just one of many articles about the town here (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/3/27/223955.shtml)

wait. all this is naive. all pro-gun stances assume that when everybody start packign they will not modify enviroment variables.

lets say we all join the NRA, and we all carry guns with us for "protection".

there is a similar situation going on in the ghettos os Caracas, Venezuela. everybody is packing for protection. the wettest dream of the nra, entire communities where even grannies are packing. must be safety heaven!!!

but does that really makes people safe?
dont the guettos in Caracas have one of the highest crime and murder rates in south america?

you know why is that??

its because thieves SWITCH tactics. once everybody knows everybody is packing, they just switch tactics.
they give up the old and uncertain "aim and give me your wallet" in favor of less risky tactics for themselves.

they just shoot you upfront, without any warning, (so you dont have the chance to shoot back) then they take the wallet, or your 100 dollars sneakers of your dead body. just like they did in Caracas when everybody knew everybody started packing.

dont underestimate thieves. once everybody start packign, enviroment will respond with new (and usually more extreme and life-costly) tactics to this.

[largextracheese]

Hah! Listen to yourself man!! Everybody carry guns.......yeah, that's the solution. Scary stuff indeed. Maybe if I only wear yellow on mondays, the crime rate will decrease?? Now that's something to ponder.....

[manimal]

Hah! Listen to yourself man!! Everybody carry guns.......yeah, that's the solution. Scary stuff indeed. Maybe if I only wear yellow on mondays, the crime rate will decrease?? Now that's something to ponder.....


ummmm.......just trying to show some FACTS here.

[Tully]

ummmm.......just trying to show some FACTS here.

That's a fascinating piece of information; pretty counter-intuitive, IMO. Do you know of any other similar examples?

[manimal]

i haven't heard of any other places actually MANDATING that every household is required to have firearm. it would be an interesting experiment to see how it would work in different portions of the US.

Sub Topic:

What are your feelings on H.R. 218 - FEDERAL LAW ALLOWING ACTIVE DUTY AND RETIRED POLICE OFFICERS TO CARRY CONCEALED ANYWHERE IN THE US ?

Before this law was passed last year, I was allowed to carry my gun concealed anywhere in the state of NC. About 24-ish other states would also allow me to carry concealed as long as i had my badge/credentials with me. the bummer was, if i was going to visit family in FL, i could carry through NC, and GA but i'd have to put the gun in the case out of reach while driving through SC.

Here are some quotes for why the law was passed:

" Police combat violent criminals every day, in every corner of the nation. These brave law enforcement professionals are issued firearms in recognition of the grave risks associated with this duty. Through training and experience, stepping in to save a citizen in distress often becomes second nature, on the job or off. There are countless incidents where off-duty and retired officers put themselves in jeapordy to save lives and stop violent crimes..........In this age of terrorism, America has never faced a greater need to have more watchful eyes on the street-- people with the skills, training and equipment necessary to stop a developing situation before it becomes a disaster."

-and-

"The life-saving benefits extend to the officers as well. Unlike cops, criminals are "on duty" around the clock. Many have knowingly targeted police officers and their families, recognizing that the officer was likely to be unarmed at home."


read more here: http://www.leaa.org/218/summary.html

So....do you agree/disagree with this new law? why or why not?

[ALEXIS_DH]

i haven't heard of any other places actually MANDATING that every household is required to have firearm. it would be an interesting experiment to see how it would work in different portions of the US.

Sub Topic:

What are your feelings on H.R. 218 - FEDERAL LAW ALLOWING ACTIVE DUTY AND RETIRED POLICE OFFICERS TO CARRY CONCEALED ANYWHERE IN THE US ?

Before this law was passed last year, I was allowed to carry my gun concealed anywhere in the state of NC. About 24-ish other states would also allow me to carry concealed as long as i had my badge/credentials with me. the bummer was, if i was going to visit family in FL, i could carry through NC, and GA but i'd have to put the gun in the case out of reach while driving through SC.

Here are some quotes for why the law was passed:

" Police combat violent criminals every day, in every corner of the nation. These brave law enforcement professionals are issued firearms in recognition of the grave risks associated with this duty. Through training and experience, stepping in to save a citizen in distress often becomes second nature, on the job or off. There are countless incidents where off-duty and retired officers put themselves in jeapordy to save lives and stop violent crimes..........In this age of terrorism, America has never faced a greater need to have more watchful eyes on the street-- people with the skills, training and equipment necessary to stop a developing situation before it becomes a disaster."

-and-

"The life-saving benefits extend to the officers as well. Unlike cops, criminals are "on duty" around the clock. Many have knowingly targeted police officers and their families, recognizing that the officer was likely to be unarmed at home."


read more here: http://www.leaa.org/218/summary.html

So....do you agree/disagree with this new law? why or why not?

actually if i were a cop like you... i would wish the least posible amount of people outside my force would have guns, of the lowest possible firepower.

we would have to check how close is that town you talk about to other towns in the US.
how big is the town?? how diverse, ethnically, economically, politically and in age? what about literacy?
plus your example doesnt show the effect of such law in the surroundings....
the fact that crime rates dropped in such town, doesnt mean that crime didnt move to the outskirts of such town...
i´d have to see the overall change in crime rates in a bigger area including surroundings to draw a more general conclusion....

its not the same to enforce such law in a small town of 800 where everybody knows each other, as to enforce it in new york city, or atlanta...

like, if we mandate firearms in the nice areas of Lima, where there is a private guard post literally in every corner, and there is a patrol car assigned to every 16 sq blocks..... of course, the almost non-existing crime rates will probably drop even further...... but maybe thievery will move somewhere else in the city.... so overall the effect on the whole society might not be as good as you would think in the first place.
enforce such law in a ghetto.. and it will probably happen the same thing as in venezuela.

in my opinion, overall in society, there is far more people uneducated and unconsiderated enough to shoot at anything, than people educated and self-controlled enough to fire their guns only when its the last resort....

[Tully]

I assume this law does not apply to police officers who were kicked off the force? If not, then as long as it isn't mandatory, I guess I'm OK with cops carrying concealed, more so than average civilians. I don't know whether this took place, but I think multiple trials in differenct places should happen before a law regarding gun control is passed. If it doesn't result in a drop in crime, I would say no to it, because I don't like the idea of people having guns if it's not helping anyone.