How much is too much?

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Ok first off a little background. I am soon to be 32, 5'10" 190-195lbs. About a year ago I ruptured my achilles tendon, prior to that I was in good shape (for me). I was hovering around 175lbs. However since my recovery I am having a hard time getting back down to that weight. So as a birthday present to myself I got me a personal trainer. A big reason in that was to get my lazy a$$ motivated to get to the gym in the AM prior to work. Knowing I have someone meeting me there to bust my chops seems to get me out of bed.

My goals are for overall good health and weight loss. My gym is great, it is part of the hospital system, so we get a few perks. One of which is pretty much all of the staff are some kind of degree'd excercise physiologist, excercise science or studying to become. In addition they will run tests on you for free almost any time. Blood, pressure, the cardiogram thing, body fat analysis, flexibility etc etc. My body fat is err well, I have 155lbs of lean muscle mass, which the guy said was slightly above avg, for my size, go me. :cool: However that extra ~40lbs is also "above avg" :nono:

So anyway, I understand that diet is a key component (and of course will be my weakest link). However my ?'s are more about how much training is too much. And more importantly is it possible that too much will negatively affect my riding. This week is a good example.
Monday - went to the gym in the PM and did a heavy leg work out (after a 15 min warm-up)
Tuesday - met traininer in the AM, 15 minute warm-up, 30 minute work-out, mostly upper body
Tuesday evening - went for a casually paced road ride with some friends. ~ 25 miles avg under 18mph. (it was a slow night, one guy was on a fixie)
Wednesday - got up and did a 45 minute spin class.
I will probably go to the gym when I get home to do something, as I have plans to meet a buddy out for dinner around 7:30
Thursday - will meet trainer in am, and will do an easy trail ride in the afternoon (well it maybe easy, depends on who shows up)
Friday - I dunno
Saturday - long trail ride in the AM
Sunday - usually a long trail ride, but my birthday is Saturday night and I have a wedding to go to Sunday afternoon. So I maybe :rolleyes: sleeping in. :devil:

As I sit here my legs are killing me, however I know the only thing I can really tolerate cardio wise is riding. I can barely tolerate (as in not be bored and want to leave) the once a week Spin class, and the road riding is well, ok. Right now I cant really get out to ride my MTB more then once during the week. So I gotta do something. I am concerned that I maybe be over training (especially legs). Is that possible? Any other suggestions?

And discuss....

[Snacks]

I am concerned that I maybe be over training (especially legs). Is that possible? Any other suggestions?

And discuss....

Yikkes! Your legs must feel like rubber :dead: I rarely work my legs when I'm riding regularly because I don't feel my legs would get enough recover time, but that's just what I think. In the off season I run the stairs and lift my legs often. I also play soccer twice a week.

Have you thought of doing a sports type activity for cardio....like soccer, basketball, floor hockey, raquetball, tennis, or BMX?

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Have you thought of doing a sports type activity for cardio....like soccer, basketball, floor hockey, raquetball, tennis, or BMX?

Thats how I ruptured my achilles tendon! I was out for 4 months! Raquetsports are DANGEROUS!

[Snacks]

Thats how I ruptured my achilles tendon! I was out for 4 months! Raquetsports are DANGEROUS!


Hahahah.....EVERYTHING is dangerous. I stopped snowboard because I kept breaking my collarbone. Took up riding, broke my collarbone. Last July I broke my ankle playing soccer :nono:

[Heidi]

That schedule doesn't sound too bad to me, but maybe for starting back into it after an injury, you should tone it down. I mean, no riding Tuesday is good, and your easy spin Thursday is like an active recovery ride from the Wed spin class. I say take Friday off. Then to ease back into it, make Saturday a shorter ride..you don't say exactly how hard your ride is, but throw some hill intervals in and make it around 1.5 hours maybe? Then stick to the long slower ride Sunday.

[MTB_Rob_NC]

That schedule doesn't sound too bad to me, but maybe for starting back into it after an injury, you should tone it down.

The injury is a non issue at this point. However the weight is sticking around

I mean, no riding Tuesday is good, and your easy spin Thursday is like an active recovery ride from the Wed spin class. I say take Friday off. Then to ease back into it, make Saturday a shorter ride..you don't say exactly how hard your ride is, but throw some hill intervals in and make it around 1.5 hours maybe? Then stick to the long slower ride Sunday.

What are these hills you speak of? :confused: I sprinted up the 4 bridges we crossed last night. Remember I am in FL.

Actually things are going to change a little. Our Tuesday ride is getting changed to Monday. I guess I can just skip working out my legs at the gym.(but damn I looked cool pushing up more then the muscle head I was sharing the leg press machine with :D ) I had been doing legs Monday because EVERYONE ELSE works chest on Monday. :rolleyes:

My weekend rides vary, sometimes by "lap" we only have a few places to ride, so a long ride is doing 2 or 3 laps of our local parks (5,7,12 mile loops respectively). Intensity depends on who else is there, talking smak or the amount of drinking that may or may not have happened the night before .

[Heidi]

Well, if you're purely looking to lose weight, then the LSD rides are your best best (long, slow distance). Your body best burns fat in the lower to moderate heart rate zone, not when you're out hammering and going your hardest.

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Well, if you're purely looking to lose weight, then the LSD rides are your best best (long, slow distance). Your body best burns fat in the lower to moderate heart rate zone, not when you're out hammering and going your hardest.


I always neglect that fact. I need to keep that specifically in mind especially during my weekday rides when I can have better control.


Thanks for the info...

[biggins]

find a ho and hump, hump, HUMP! that weight away. thats i how stay so thin.

[MTB_Rob_NC]

find a ho and hump, hump, HUMP! that weight away. thats i how stay so thin.

drinkin in the afternoon have ya?

I am saving myself for Niki anyway. :eek:

[Snacks]

Make sure you get tons of sleep, too. I think I sleep more when I'm training than a small child.

[JMAC]

Wow I think if i broke my achilles tendon i would more than likely kill myself. I'm just impressed you didn't. Good luck with working out, just start off easy.

[Snacks]

How about swimming? It's a great way to get a good cardio workout and it's easy on the legs.

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Make sure you get tons of sleep, too. I think I sleep more when I'm training than a small child.

That is certainly a BIG benefit to excericsing regularly. I have been sleeping like a ROCK. :drool:


How about swimming? It's a great way to get a good cardio workout and it's easy on the legs.

Eh, its bad enough I have to wear spandex when I go for a road ride. I dont think I could handle a speedo. Seriously though you need a good size pool or to go to the Ocean to get in a decent work-out. More of a PITA then its worth to me.

[Heidi]

How about swimming? It's a great way to get a good cardio workout and it's easy on the legs.

Yep, I have been swimming for about a month now...trying to let the knee get some rest. I have read soooo many different opinions on whether it's a good fat burning exercise though. I sure get my heart rate up for a good hour at a minimum though.

[Snacks]

Not to derail the thread but what really is the difference between getting your heart rate in the zone and fat burning?

[MTB_Rob_NC]

I have read soooo many different opinions on whether it's a good fat burning exercise though.

Interesting, why wouldn't it be? You can post a synopsis, I am not going to hammer you for some technical inaccuracy. I am curious.

[Heidi]

Interesting, why wouldn't it be? You can post a synopsis, I am not going to hammer you for some technical inaccuracy. I am curious.


Well, some studies suggest it isn't as effective as running or walking because you aren't actually carrying your own body weight...the water is. Also, the water temperature (even at 83 degrees), causes your body to want to store fat to protect it. Basically, you just have to be conscious of that, and not overeat. I do my swim workouts first thing in the morning usually...before eating. This causes my body to be burning fat, instead of the sugar in whatever I just ate.

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Not to derail the thread but what really is the difference between getting your heart rate in the zone and fat burning?

That's not derailing. Its relevant. I have been explained and read about this a number of times. My common sense translation is....

There is the Fat Burning Zone, then higher up there is the Cardio Zone. I guess once you get your heart rate above a certain level your body stops burning fat and starts to worry about other things, like keeping your muscles moving etc etc.

However that always contradicts another basic that I keep hearing is that in order to lose weight (hopefully fat) that you must have a calorie deficit, and by working harder you are using up more calories. It is kinda a catch 22 in my mind. Id enjoy hearing some other common sense perspectives on this.

When I get on the treadmill or eliptical thingy that has the heart rate monitor I really dont feel like I am getting a work-out if my heart rate is only 105-110 or so. I really only start feeling like I am doing something after 120 or so.

[Heidi]

I just know that in certain heart rate zones, your body is utilizing different sources of energy. In the lower zones below 70% of your max, your body is getting 80% of it's fuel from stored fat! Compare that to 70-80% of your max when it switches over and only uses about 40% from fat. It's something about the mitchondria in your muscle cells...blah blah blah.

[MTB_Rob_NC]

I just know that in certain heart rate zones, your body is utilizing different sources of energy. In the lower zones below 70% of your max, your body is getting 80% of it's fuel from stored fat! Compare that to 70-80% of your max when it switches over and only uses about 40% from fat. It's something about the mitchondria in your muscle cells...blah blah blah.

Hmmm I guess I should invest in a HRM :cool: if I want to reduce my body fat.

[Heidi]

Hmmm I guess I should invest in a HRM :cool: if I want to reduce my body fat.


nah, just ride. :thumb:

[MTB_Rob_NC]

nah, just ride. :thumb:

Ok, I am leaving in 30 minutes to just that!

Can you please finish my allowance for bad debt/bad debt expense back-up for my Federal Income Tax package? :help:

[Heidi]

Ok, I am leaving in 30 minutes to just that!

Can you please finish my allowance for bad debt/bad debt expense back-up for my Federal Income Tax package? :help:

deductible.

[MTB_Rob_NC]

deductible.

I said the BACKUP! :angry:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/MTB_Rob_FL/misc/baddebt.jpg

[Heidi]

Wow, that's like all organized and stuff. hehehe

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Wow, that's like all organized and stuff. hehehe


The sad thing is I took the time to do that, but not get up and look at the 30 something entries that make up the account for the year. :nopity:

I am SUCH a procrastinator today. I do not forsee tomorrow being any better. :(

[JMAC]

Well, some studies suggest it isn't as effective as running or walking because you aren't actually carrying your own body weight...the water is. Also, the water temperature (even at 83 degrees), causes your body to want to store fat to protect it. Basically, you just have to be conscious of that, and not overeat. I do my swim workouts first thing in the morning usually...before eating. This causes my body to be burning fat, instead of the sugar in whatever I just ate.

Really good swimmers often have a thick layer of fat, well at least when compaired to either a runner or pro cyclist....

Sadly I think I have to start swimming, can't run (stress fractured tibia), can;t bike now my frame is cracked so it's getting replaced :(

[Heidi]

Really good swimmers often have a thick layer of fat, well at least when compaired to either a runner or pro cyclist....

Sadly I think I have to start swimming, can't run (stress fractured tibia), can;t bike now my frame is cracked so it's getting replaced :(

No, I wouldn't go as far as to say they have a thick layer of fat! I could say that about a lot of the cyclists on this board probably. :)

So far, I have loved it and have found that I get a really good workout swimming. I still lift weights a lot, and do a few rides a week though.

[Snacks]

So it's true what I've read that working out in the am before eating burns more fat?

It's way easier for me to work out first thing in the morning then after work......there are too many excuses I can make up not to after work :o:

As far as the heart rate....I'm not sure if I trust the ones at the gym....I mean are they ever checked for accuracy? I have a Polar monitor I bought about a year ago and still haven't set it up! I just work out so I can still talk, but not really want to. :monkey:

[MTB_Rob_NC]

It's way easier for me to work out first thing in the morning then after work......there are too many excuses I can make up not to after work :o:


Not to mention by the time you get home and stuff you are eating so late. I hate that. :nono:

[Snacks]

Not to mention by the time you get home and stuff you are eating so late. I hate that. :nono:

Right! Like last night. Got home from riding (most excellent ride btw ;) ) at 6:30pm. Put my bike away, changed, started a wash, made a tuna fish sandwich ( gross, I know). I didn't sit down to eat until after 7pm, which by Oparh's standers are too late :rolleyes: But the last thing I ate was a banana on the way to the ride at 3:45!

Also, I tend to eat worse though out the day if I don’t workout in the morning. I always feel I'm one step away from downing an entire box of Girl Scout cookies :devil:

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Right! Like last night. Got home from riding (most excellent ride btw ;) ) at 6:30pm. Put my bike away, changed, started a wash,

Wow you do wash, have you ever considered Florida? :thumb:

[Snacks]

Wow you do wash, have you ever considered Florida? :thumb:

Are there any hills down there.....I mean mountains? All I can picture is riding on sandy trails.

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Are there any hills down there.....I mean mountains? All I can picture is riding on sandy trails.

Will my answers affect you coming to do my laundry?

We can ride all year long :cool:

[Snacks]

Okay.....so to revive this thread.....how much is too much?

I play soccer on Sunday's, usually the entire game(lack of woman subs), so I take Monday off from riding, but still get to the gym for a 30 minute cardio session and about 45 minutes of weights.

I usually ride on Tues and Thur. but my legs are just flat on Tues....nothing to them. Today's ride was a horrible display of riding(picture drunk person on bike) :mumble: My legs were so tired, I was so sloppy on the downhill sections I'm surprised I didn't do some serious damage to myself :o: Thank goodness Skookum showed up to save me!

They usually start to come around for Thur. ride....then of course 3 days until soccer......so am I expecting too much from my legs? At my age (32 this month :dancing: ) are then losing the ability to recover?

Thanks, Amy

[Heidi]

Too much is different for everyone, no certain limit can be stated. It's too much if you feel like it's too much. It's too much if your legs feel so sore that it bothers you to do anything, it's too much if you feel lethargic, it's too much if you feel run down....it all just depends on you. I can always tell it is too much if I have trouble holding heart rate zones that normally I can do. But to state a limit is impossible...what may be too much for one person could be a piece of cake for me.

One thing I will point out, is you aren't giving them a day off really...are you lifting leg weights on Monday? Maybe just do upper body and core stuff and let them chill out a day.

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Okay.....so to revive this thread.....how much is too much?


What you didn't like the direction of doing my laundry?

Ok seriously ...

I too changed up a little in the past week or so. No more lifting weights with my legs.

Monday has been changed to a 25 mile road ride, which has yet to settle on the pace. It IS supposed to be moderate with one guy on a fixie, but when he had a mechanical Monday and turned off it turned into a 18 mile sprint the rest of the way! :nono:
Tuesday is the gym for upper body and "core"
Wednesday is spinning in the AM - the gym for weights in the evening if I can make it.
Thursday - Gym in the AM (upper body) - trail ride in the afternoon
Friday - 12 oz curls :blah:
Saturday - AM - fast trail ride
Sunday - AM - fast trail ride

I will see this weekend how it works out. I really want my legs to feel the best on the weekends. Oh ya and to continue to lose this gut.

[Snacks]

What you didn't like the direction of doing my laundry?

Ok seriously ...

I too changed up a little in the past week or so. No more lifting weights with my legs.

Monday has been changed to a 25 mile road ride, which has yet to settle on the pace. It IS supposed to be moderate with one guy on a fixie, but when he had a mechanical Monday and turned off it turned into a 18 mile sprint the rest of the way! :nono:
Tuesday is the gym for upper body and "core"
Wednesday is spinning in the AM - the gym for weights in the evening if I can make it.
Thursday - Gym in the AM (upper body) - trail ride in the afternoon
Friday - 12 oz curls :blah:
Saturday - AM - fast trail ride
Sunday - AM - fast trail ride

I will see this weekend how it works out. I really want my legs to feel the best on the weekends. Oh ya and to continue to lose this gut.

Hahaha....I'll do your laundry but I don't fly (totally scared to dealth of it) so you'll have to ship it up here :p And I have seen pic. of you.....where is that gut?

Heidi, I usually don't lift weight with my legs. I'll do a hill running session or run the stairs instead. Lower back in the lowest part of my body that I work. I have found when I lift my legs it takes too long for them to recover.

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Hahaha....I'll do your laundry but I don't fly (totally scared to dealth of it) so you'll have to ship it up here

hmmm... I do get really good freight rates here at work. Do you Iron?

And I have seen pic. of you.....where is that gut?

Trust me, its there

Lower back in the lowest part of my body that I work.

There has to be a joke in there some where. :blah:

Ok more on topic discussion...

A roadie buddy of mine (who is of above avg intelligence) was explaining to me that most cycling training stuff says "lifting" (weight training) your legs has negative results. Paraphrasing.... Allows you to push a harder gear, but will slow your ability to keep a faster cadence. I am not sure how that directly reflects for your avg or above avg mtb enthusiast like myself, but it was an interesting tid bit of info.

Comments?

[Snacks]

hmmm... I do get really good freight rates here at work. Do you Iron?



Trust me, its there



There has to be a joke in there some where. :blah:

Ok more on topic discussion...

A roadie buddy of mine (who is of above avg intelligence) was explaining to me that most cycling training stuff says "lifting" (weight training) your legs has negative results. Paraphrasing.... Allows you to push a harder gear, but will slow your ability to keep a faster cadence. I am not sure how that directly reflects for your avg or above avg mtb enthusiast like myself, but it was an interesting tid bit of info.

Comments?

Oh, I can iron...it just takes me about an hour to do one shirt :rolleyes: I'm a fan of tossing the article of clothing in the dryer for 10 minutes with a damp cloth :)

I what your friend said about lifting your legs makes since....but I'm with you, I'm not sure how it would directly effect me. There are times when I'm riding were I really have to 'muscle' though a tough technical section where dropping into a spinning gear is not feasible. I’m not sure if having stronger legs would make that easy or just having more determination not to give up.

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Oh, I can iron...it just takes me about an hour to do one shirt :rolleyes:

Your time management issues are not my problem :D

I'm a fan of tossing the article of clothing in the dryer for 10 minutes with a damp cloth :)

That works for everything except stuff I have to wear to work. Ironed shirts/Pants. I use the dry cleaner for my long sleeve shirts, but Company Polo's and pants get ironed.

There are times when I'm riding were I really have to 'muscle' though a tough technical section where dropping into a spinning gear is not feasible.

Same here, it makes sense in road biking, but I can see the benefits in MTB, at least for me. I was working my legs pretty hard for a few weeks. I could noticeably see/feel a difference on these 2 steep climbs on my local trail. They really aren't climbs (we dont have those) but the trail shoots up about 30 and 20 feet respectively in about 150' of trail. They are short and steep, with sharp switchbacks at the top of each, where spinning isn't all that effective.

I will need your address to ship my clothes :D