Mountian Lions

[Kornphlake]

Mountian lions have been spotted twice in Peutz Valley in the last week. I'm sure anybody who'se ridden ATT has ridden with a mountain lion in the general area but you might want to be a little more careful over the next couple of weeks as the lions seem to be less afraid of humans at the moment. Ride in groups (which I always suggest when riding Anderson) and keep an eye out, I'd hate to loose another biker to a mountain lion attack.

[Zark]

For those in the Thousand Oaks area there have been reports of a big cat "larger than a mountain lion" in the area. So I'd pass on the solo rides, maybe pack a .44 magnum in case a tiger charges you.

[ioscope]

Theodore roosevelt killed a mountain lion with a hunting knife. So I think they are pussies.

[Spunger]

Theodore roosevelt killed a mountain lion with a hunting knife. So I think they are pussies.

They killed female bikers right? I don't think they would have a chance anyways j/k

I grew up killing animals (hunting etc...) and I wouldn't be too worried. I always carry a knife anyways with me. What if you need to cut something, what are you going to use? It's more like a leatherman but still I'd have no doubt in stabbing a cat with it.

But I too hope not to see another death by an animal. It sucks for both the animal and the riders.

[Kornphlake]

I found this information on www.dfg.ca.gov/lion

WHAT SHOULD YOU DO IF YOU ENCOUNTER A MOUNTAIN LION?

There's been very little research on how to avoid mountain lion attacks. But mountain lion attacks that have occurred are being analyzed in the hope that some crucial questions can be answered: Did the victim do something to inadvertently provoke an attack? What should a person who is approached by a mountain lion do--or not do? The following suggestions are based on studies of mountain lion behavior and analysis of attacks by mountain lions, tigers and leopards:

* DO NOT HIKE ALONE: Go in groups, with adults supervising children.
* KEEP CHILDREN CLOSE TO YOU: Observations of captured wild mountain lions reveal that the animals seem especially drawn to children. Keep children within your sight at all times.
* DO NOT APPROACH A LION: Most mountain lions will try to avoid a confrontation. Give them a way to escape.
* DO NOT RUN FROM A LION: Running may stimulate a mountain lion's instinct to chase. Instead, stand and face the animal. Make eye contact. If you have small children with you, pick them up if possible so they don't panic and run. Although it may be awkward, pick them up without bending over or turning away from the mountain lion.
* DO NOT CROUCH DOWN OR BEND OVER: In Nepal, a researcher studying tigers and leopards watched the big cats kill cattle and domestic water buffalo while ignoring humans standing nearby. He surmised that a human standing up is just not the right shape for a cat's prey. On the other hand, a person squatting or bending over looks a lot like a four-legged prey animal. If you're in mountain lion country, avoid squatting, crouching or bending over, even when picking up children.
* DO ALL YOU CAN TO APPEAR LARGER: Raise your arms. Open your jacket if you are wearing one. Again, pick up small children. Throw stones, branches, or whatever you can reach without crouching or turning your back. Wave your arms slowly and speak firmly in a loud voice. The idea is to convince the mountain lion that you are not prey and that you may be a danger to it.
* FIGHT BACK IF ATTACKED: A hiker in Southern California used a rock to fend off a mountain lion that was attacking his son. Others have fought back successfully with sticks, caps, jackets, garden tools and their bare hands. Since a mountain lion usually tries to bite the head or neck, try to remain standing and face the attacking animal.

It sounds like if you are attacked, which is an uncommon event, you can fight back with just about whatever you've got handy and the cat will leave. I carry a knife with a 2.5" folding blade, I try to keep it where it would be easy to get to, either on my camelback strap or on my belt if I'm wearing one. I can't say that I'd be able to get at it and use it effectively if I was being chased down by a cat that big though.

The guy who was attacked last year was assumed to be hunched over his bike fixing something when the cat attacked him, the girl who was attacked apparently threatened the cat by approaching it with its prey, she poked at its eyes and her friend threw rocks and she got away alive. So the moral of the story is don't fix your bike if it breaks and don't chase after a mountain lion if you suspect its chowing down on your buddy.

[blue]

Something I heard seems pretty true...something about the cat that you see won't kill you, but the one you don't does.

One was in my neighbors backyard last summer. Interesting experience, that was, considering I lived in the middle of the suburbs.

[lovebunny]

didnt sean speed hit one on att a few years back?

[MikeD]

the cat that you see won't kill you, but the one you don't does.


Yyyyyyup. If a lion's really stalking us as prey, we're never going to know it until it's too late.

Sorry, but it's really doubtful any of us are going to get clip blades out, unfolded, and stuck into an eye or major blood vessel on the neck of a mountain lion that's in the middle of the process of mauling us. And even if you do, it's likely the lion's going to outlive you, even if it dies in the end.

I think bear spray is the best idea, if you can have it handy in a holster on your camelbak strap or something similar. That stuff is going to make him think "this meal is not worth it," I'd wager more quickly than a knife would, and you don't have to be super-brave or accurate to use it.

MD

[Zutroy]

Since they are saying it's a liger loose how do you fend off a cat with magical powers?

[merrrrjig]

ya they shot a tiger today somewhere

[MTDBIKE]

How about offering the big pooty a bowl of milk.

[EBasil]

Big 5 has 12" blade "survival knives" on sale for $17 bucks. Plus, they stock the old, reliable Ka-Bar USMC Fighting Knife (WWII-spec). They even have a 17" "bowie style" knife in stock called the "Texas Hold'em"! Just the thing for fighting a 150lb cat with saber teeth and the reflexes of..well, a cat.

2" blades are for opening boxes and cutting string. It's legal to carry fixed blade knives in exposed sheaths...and think of how well it will impress others on the trail! The truly badass will just carry the blade, clamped in their teeth.

[MTDBIKE]

Big 5 has 12" blade "survival knives" on sale for $17 bucks. Plus, they stock the old, reliable Ka-Bar USMC Fighting Knife (WWII-spec). They even have a 17" "bowie style" knife in stock called the "Texas Hold'em"! Just the thing for fighting a 150lb cat with saber teeth and the reflexes of..well, a cat.

2" blades are for opening boxes and cutting string. It's legal to carry fixed blade knives in exposed sheaths...and think of how well it will impress others on the trail! The truly badass will just carry the blade, clamped in their teeth.

EBasil versus Snagglepoose on Pay Per View cable tv.
Big ego and his fighting knives takes on the world's best
natural land dwelling hunting creature. What are the odds of
surviving of more than one round with a 150lb cat during a bout.
It is not just the sharp teeth of a big cat but the long sharp claws on four paws are just as deadly.

[clancy98]

The truly badass will just carry the blade, clamped in their teeth.


I just carry mine stabbed deep into me left kidney (obviously, I'm right handed)

actually I am trying to find a way to mount a sheath on my front bottle mounts, for a small utility knife. anyone know anybody who makes anything like that, maybe a universal bracket or something... hmm....

[llkoolkeg]

Sorry, but it's really doubtful any of us are going to get clip blades out, unfolded, and stuck into an eye or major blood vessel on the neck of a mountain lion that's in the middle of the process of mauling us. And even if you do, it's likely the lion's going to outlive you, even if it dies in the end.

I think bear spray is the best idea, if you can have it handy in a holster on your camelbak strap or something similar. That stuff is going to make him think "this meal is not worth it," I'd wager more quickly than a knife would, and you don't have to be super-brave or accurate to use it.

MD

I carry a thick 4" ATS-34 tanto-point Benchmade automatic in an exposed velcro pouch. I could put that puppy through a car door! I'll take that any day over some pepper spray that the wind or my bad luck would end up directing into MY eyes and lungs during a struggle. One half-decent thrust with that knife would sufficently deliver the "this meal ain't worth it" message. Anyhow, those sprays are bulky when compared to my knife, which can easily be carried. I don't trust fixed-blade knives while biking because I wreck too much and don't want to test the seamsmanship of the sheath under such circumstances.

[MikeD]

If you use pepper spray, at any time, you should count on it getting in your own eyes. Just the nature of the stuff; cops and security personnel are taught to expect it. But I'd rather have the ability to let a cloud of that stuff off, in any direction, and have it do its job (sure as hell isn't making me taste any better), than have to draw, open, and effectively use the knife once I'm already pinned down with my head in the animal's jaws.

I just figure something produced as "bear spray" will end up working better than a simple knife. If knives worked better, why don't animal control officers and rangers only carry them? I know, the spray is designed to give standoff when confronted with an angry animal, and maybe avoid killing it (not our concern here...), but I think it's going to work just as well-or not-when used close-up, with less need for accuracy or strength or coordination. And it's certainly going to be a scary, alien sensation to the animal, unlike a cut or stab, which might just piss it off more.

I didn't think the bear spray cannisters were that bulky; same as a normal pepper spray cannister, I thought...like a short fat magic marker. Just 2x the concentration for the capsicum within? I guess I should go buy one, anyhow.

'Course, maybe that .44 Ruger is the way to go if one is really worried, although I'm sure it'll just end up as another crunchy bit once the lion's eaten all of the soft spots...

Heh, face it, once you've been ambushed by a mountain lion, none of this crap's likely gonna help, from spray to a gun, so pick your poison and hope the lion doesn't go after you. And tie a nice 6 oz filet to the underside of your buddy's saddle when he's not looking.

Then again, I read about a bowhunter who stabbed a bear in the neck repeatedly with an arrow and killed it while the bear was had him pinned, trying to maul him...but he had the arrow in his hand when he was attacked, which is kind of the key.

MD

[MikeD]

Hey, here's a thought...what if we all "mad Max" our bikes? Armor plating, harpoon cannons...the works. And singlespeed.

No mountian lion gonna mess with us, nossir...

[ncrider]

sweeeeet, I'll put NOS and one of those big metal mad maxish grills on my bike. Screw the weight, just hit the NOS on the uphil and bam, lets see a lion catch me. On the DH side I can just ram through all those damn bushes that keep jumping out at me. ;)

[EBasil]

I just carry mine stabbed deep into me left kidney (obviously, I'm right handed)

actually I am trying to find a way to mount a sheath on my front bottle mounts, for a small utility knife. anyone know anybody who makes anything like that, maybe a universal bracket or something... hmm....
Good god, man! Your Kidney??

If you want to mount a sheath on the downtube, why not just use zip ties? Or, you could drill holes in the sheath, then mount it with the water bottle bolts and washers, like what came with a Ringle' cage.

I think the hunting catalogs have bear spray on a velcro strap.

[ioscope]

Yyyyyyup. If a lion's really stalking us as prey, we're never going to know it until it's too late.

Sorry, but it's really doubtful any of us are going to get clip blades out, unfolded, and stuck into an eye or major blood vessel on the neck of a mountain lion that's in the middle of the process of mauling us. And even if you do, it's likely the lion's going to outlive you, even if it dies in the end.

I think bear spray is the best idea, if you can have it handy in a holster on your camelbak strap or something similar. That stuff is going to make him think "this meal is not worth it," I'd wager more quickly than a knife would, and you don't have to be super-brave or accurate to use it.

MD


Cayenne=Tasty!!!

ANyway, I told you all, TR killed one with a knife, so they are pussies, not to say I ain't more of one.

[Westy]

I carry a thick 4" ATS-34 tanto-point Benchmade automatic in an exposed velcro pouch. I could put that puppy through a car door! I'll take that any day over some pepper spray that the wind or my bad luck would end up directing into MY eyes and lungs during a struggle. One half-decent thrust with that knife would sufficently deliver the "this meal ain't worth it" message. Anyhow, those sprays are bulky when compared to my knife, which can easily be carried. I don't trust fixed-blade knives while biking because I wreck too much and don't want to test the seamsmanship of the sheath under such circumstances.

Your knife is guaranteed to prevent mountain lion death on the trails of Maryland.

[Kornphlake]

Hey, here's a thought...what if we all "mad Max" our bikes? Armor plating, harpoon cannons...the works. And singlespeed.

No mountian lion gonna mess with us, nossir...


So far this gets the prize for the most outrageous form of personal protection. :thumb:

Really, the odds of getting seriously hurt while riding heavily favor a crash over a mountain lion attack. Having a knife, pistol, pepper spray or a razor wire suit are just accessories to boost my confidance enough to keep my eyes on the trail rather than in the bushes behind me. That way I can see the sharp rocks I'm going to break my neck on before it happens. :dead:

[Fury]

So far this gets the prize for the most outrageous form of personal protection. :thumb:

Really, the odds of getting seriously hurt while riding heavily favor a crash over a mountain lion attack. Having a knife, pistol, pepper spray or a razor wire suit are just accessories to boost my confidance enough to keep my eyes on the trail rather than in the bushes behind me. That way I can see the sharp rocks I'm going to break my neck on before it happens. :dead:

I envision all sorts of problems with carrying that stuff.

Imaginative sequence of events:

1. Spot mountain lion,
2. Crash and in doing so manage to impale oneself on one's own knife,
3. Stand up, stunned, and realize mountain lion is coming closer,
4. Draw gun and accidentally eject clip,
5. Draw pepper spray and inadvertantly spray yourself in your own eyes because you didn't check the nozzle direction before spraying,
6. While eyes are watering you break out into a full sprint not watching where you're going, fall off a cliff in to a river and sink like a stone because of all the razor wire.

Could happen.

[spookydave]

2 confirmed lion sightings at the Oaks last Sunday. Maybe you guys could go there to see how well you stack up to the big kitty cat. ;)
I will say those signs made me think twice about poaching the closed trails yesterday. The high water is what stopped me but I was still thinking about it for sure.

[ncrider]

I'm gonna carry cat nip and a ball tied to a string for the big kitties to play with.

[Silver]

2 confirmed lion sightings at the Oaks last Sunday. Maybe you guys could go there to see how well you stack up to the big kitty cat. ;)
I will say those signs made me think twice about poaching the closed trails yesterday. The high water is what stopped me but I was still thinking about it for sure.

It's still wet at the bottom. Rode it today, and had to wade through knee deep water at the bottom of zips.

The cat signs spooked me out a bit too. I think I'm going to ride Aliso for the near future...

[skatetokil]

I think we're forgetting one key fact. You are as big as any mountain lion. If a guy came at you with a knife (think claws) and you weren't armed, what would your reaction be?

Try to dodge the first swipe and punch him violently and repeatedly about the nose and eyes. Hit him with a rock, kick him in the balls, bite his ears. Go into madman mode. Throw your 40 lb bike at him. Scream like you're about to be murdered. Does anyone have a good reason why this approach would would fail against a mountain lion? Just be keep your eyes and ears open and make sure you're facing the foul beast when it comes to eat you.

[M.O.A.B.]

You'll never even know what hit you.What do you think your chances are of getting a knife out of your camelback with a lion going for your neck? Most guys can't find a multitool in there packs, and probaly wouldn't be able to get the knife either.These animals literally tear people apart.It's not like you can say "timeout, I got to get my knife".The reality is there is now an overpopulation of these animals and will we start to see more of this I'm afraid.

[HarryCallahan]

I think we're forgetting one key fact. You are as big as any mountain lion. If a guy came at you with a knife (think claws) and you weren't armed, what would your reaction be?

Try to dodge the first swipe and punch him violently and repeatedly about the nose and eyes. Hit him with a rock, kick him in the balls, bite his ears. Go into madman mode. Throw your 40 lb bike at him. Scream like you're about to be murdered. Does anyone have a good reason why this approach would would fail against a mountain lion? Just be keep your eyes and ears open and make sure you're facing the foul beast when it comes to eat you.

From what I've read, you definitely do want to fight back if attacked or even approached by a lion. Yell, wave your arms, look big, throw things, don't run. By all means, get out a weapon if you have one.

However, you ask if there is a good reason why what you wrote wouldn't work. There are two big obstacles to overcome. First, mtn lions are ambush type hunters. They like to hit prey from behind and above, going for the neck or throat, with a goal of breaking a neck or crushing a windpipe. Secondly, your analogy about comparable size doesn't really hold up, as they are proportionately much stronger.

I think MikeD had the most practical suggestion, as far as clipping a pepper spray canister onto your camelback harness.

[-BB-]

2 confirmed lion sightings at the Oaks last Sunday. Maybe you guys could go there to see how well you stack up to the big kitty cat. ;)
I will say those signs made me think twice about poaching the closed trails yesterday. The high water is what stopped me but I was still thinking about it for sure.


The Oaks?

Where is that?

Santiago?

[damnit jim]

I think you guys are missing the point all together!! First off "They" tell you to ride or hike in groups. That in itself makes survival easier... because... I don't have to outrun a mountian lion... I only have to out run you!

anyone want to go ride!!! :D