Cadence and Power

[Westy]

I have always thought that the most efficient way to pedal is with a fairly quick smooth pedal stroke, say 90 rpms. I have been playing on a trainer with a powermeter and HR monitor. For the same perceived effort and HR I can pump out about 60Kw standing up as I can sitting and spinning. And it looks like I can put out about 20 more Kw riding in a larger gear at a slower cadence (60rpm) for the same HR.

Should I work on higher speed spinning to improve this or should I just go with what feels natural? Can doing speed work improve my high speed efficiency?

[SuspectDevice]

Questions..
1.Kilowatts? DAMN! You mean either Watts or Kilojoules methinks.
2. What is it that you are trying to improve? It's unclear to me. 200 watts is 200 watts any way you slice it.
3. How are you defining speed work?
4. What kind of powermeter are you using?

Comments...
1. Your power output is higher standing up because you have to support your body mass, and you are moving more of your mass each pedal stroke.

2. Heartrate is absolutely meaningless compared to power, ignore it.

3. As cadence increases heart rate increases, but see #2 above.

4. Power = force*velocity and human muscle stores relatively little fuel, so it prefers to use less of it's maximal force per revolution over the long term.

[Westy]

1. Whoops I meant Watts, I'm used to working with electric motors the size of cars that are rated in thousands of kW.
2. I'm working on threshold training and was trying to get a baseline and noticed for the same power my heartrate went down when pedalling out of the saddle. I've always felt like I had better endurance riding out of the saddle, it just sucks aerodynamically.
3. Riding at a higher than normal cadence.
4. A crappy Axiom powertrain I picked up used, it is a stationary trainer I can hook up to my laptop.

I usually don't pay much attention to heart rate, that is why I was trying to look at power. I just always thought riding at a higher cadence was supposed to be more efficient I guess I just need to find my sweet spot and concentrate on pedalling smooth circles.

[SuspectDevice]

Higher cadences are more efficent in terms of energy usage.
You have no way of measuring that though unless you go out and spend $30,000 on a metabolic cart.
Don't get too caught up with pedaling style. The best style isn't the roundest, it's the one that makes the most power. Top time trialists have a spin that is more of an exagerated elipsoid than a circle...

A tip with the trainer. Always inflate the same tire to the same pressure, and use the same numbers of turns on the roller if you want to maintain any sort of consistecy in your power readings. Develop a coast-down test to make sure that you always have consistent resistance.

[Westy]

A tip with the trainer. Always inflate the same tire to the same pressure, and use the same numbers of turns on the roller if you want to maintain any sort of consistecy in your power readings. Develop a coast-down test to make sure that you always have consistent resistance.

I've been paying attention to pressure and roller turns but I love the coast down test idea. That should compensate for tire and roller wear.

[Serial Midget]

I just want to say that I have been able to ride outside everyday for the last two weeks. :evil:

OK. That is all. :D

Oh and my experience is... I can ride longer spinning faster than I can by pushing tall gears. My natural spin is aropund 80 to 85 (up from 65 a few years ago) and I notice that I tend to spin smaller gears then those I ride with and I am usually the last to crap out.

[Silver]

Am I the only one that spins like a mofo? When I'm comfy and I bother to count, I'm up at 105-110. It's soooo much easier on my knees.

[Serial Midget]

Am I the only one that spins like a mofo? When I'm comfy and I bother to count, I'm up at 105-110. It's soooo much easier on my knees.

Yes and that makes you a freak... :monkey:

[JMAC]

I have always thought that the most efficient way to pedal is with a fairly quick smooth pedal stroke, say 90 rpms. I have been playing on a trainer with a powermeter and HR monitor. For the same perceived effort and HR I can pump out about 60Kw standing up as I can sitting and spinning. And it looks like I can put out about 20 more Kw riding in a larger gear at a slower cadence (60rpm) for the same HR.

Should I work on higher speed spinning to improve this or should I just go with what feels natural? Can doing speed work improve my high speed efficiency?

From what I understand it is very good to spin at >110rpm during the base stage of training. So yes spin away it helps inprove effeciency and well everything.

[Silver]

Yes and that makes you a freak... :monkey:

See, now I don't know if I'm different or just lazy.

[jon cross]

The thing I think you might not be realizing is that there's two factors to consider when it comes to efficiency: power output AND energy use. You get more power standing up and at slightly lower cadences, but your muscles most likely are having to work a bit harder. Everyone is different and will be efficient with different pedaling styles, but it's good not to over-think this. Train with a wide range of cadences. Early in the season, as JMAC mentioned, go higher with lower gears. It will help your legs develop that muscle memory that the winter robs from you. Later in the season, when it's time to get heavy, do power workouts and sprints with whatever gear you want. Climb a mountain in your 53-11 if you want. Just mix it up.