It's True! Big Bear Closed To Dh/fr

[Gimper4JC]

Gravity racing (and riding) to be banned at Big Bear

By Jason Sumner
VeloNews associate editor

This report filed December 7, 2004

One of America's most renowned mountain-bike racing venues has pulled the plug on downhilling. Snow Summit Resort in Big Bear Lake, California will no longer allow downhill bikes on its chairlifts during the summer riding season, and this means no more downhill racing either.

According to Dick Kun, president of the resort, the change in policy stemmed primarily from the amount of liability exposure his resort was facing by allowing downhillers to ride on the mountain two hours drive from Los Angeles.

"Even with the insurance that NORBA and Team Big Bear carried it wasn't enough to protect us," explained Kun, referring to USA Cycling's national cycling body and the outfit that has run the Big Bear NCS races and many others during the last 15 years. "We just don't get enough in return to defray the exposure."

Kun added that, "there's one on-going claim stemming from an accident that happened a couple years ago that put things over the top." He would not elaborate on the case.

Two years ago, at the NORBA national series event, a female Japanese downhiller died from injuries sustained during a practice run.

Kun also pointed to the number of illegal trails being built on the mountain, which he said could be almost exclusively pinned on the downhill/freeride set.

"Guys were just riding everywhere in the woods," said Kun. "The Forest Service was really pissed off with what was going on and it probably wasn't long before they shut it down anyway."

A statement on the Team Big Bear Web site read, "Various methods have been used to inhibit the development and use of these trails including, signage, fencing and ticket revocation, but these attempts have proved futile."

As for the NORBA national series race that's scheduled for Big Bear May 14-15, 2005, the event will go on, just without the downhill or dual slalom.

"We'll have the cross-country and maybe the Super D," said Team Big Bear's Tom Spiegel. "But there will be no gravity events, no downhill, no dual slalom. It's all about the danger factor. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it goes."

As for enforcement of the new rule, Snow Summit's Kun said it would probably be a matter of bike weight restrictions, say no bikes over 35 pounds, though a final decision had not yet been made.

"Frankly we considered stopping [bike riding at the resort] all together," said Kun. "But we decided that we were willing to accept the exposure that came with allowing cross-country riding. We haven't had any serious accidents involving cross-country people and we don't think they're the ones building the illegal trails." END

This is not good.* Before you know it, the lawyers will sue all the fun out of everything.* People need to accept personal responsibility.* This is ridiculous.* Below is the link to Team Big Bear for the full story.* http://www.teambigbear.com/

[Slugman]

EDIT: Gotcha :thumb:

[Gimper4JC]

Little late...

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104479
and another in teh SoCal forum..


No, I just posted the news. Not asking a question...


Time to buy a mountain... (Bootleg cyn)...

[HRDTLBRO]

Not cool.

[bigkonarider]

Maybe a XC rider will crash it hard & kill themselves at a race !!!!
Whoever sued should be shot..We all know to "Ride at our own risk"!
Now all resorts are going to be paranoid..Wonderful,just friggin great..
Guess there is always MOTOCROSS !!!
CR250 time ?

[Sir Happypants]

as long as whistler dosnt follow.....

[allsk8sno]

ok so now all the dh people will ride there xc bikes and risk even more injury going down that narly stuff...nice move...

[SoCalsurfer]

My bike weighs 34 pounds....Muahahahahahahha Bwahahahahahah :thumb:

[SuperSlow]

ive had a 35 lb dh bike

[spookydave]

My bike weighs 34 pounds....Muahahahahahahha Bwahahahahahah :thumb:
mine's 51 :(

[AlberTop]

Mine is 37. I have to take out 2.

[Jm_]

Yeah, we should do something safe like road biking, only about 120mph when you add a roadie going 60mph to a car comming up the road at 60mph. That lycra should protect from scrapes and breakages nicely too...

Intresting story, some kid from my school (unfortunatly) had been drinking on the day this happened (right before he went on a ride), went riding through the city with no helmet, hit a pothole and fell and got severe brain damage. His parents sued the city for a crazy amount of money, and won...

Sad...

[sama1ter]

good thing i just bought a tazer fs:)

[mack]

Ive never understood this statement, but now i do.

You cant have your cake and eat it too.

Next itll be the ski resorts. RETREAT, TO SOUTH AMERICA!

[1000-Oaks]

Guys have to be very careful about what they say when the get hurt, otherwise their INSURANCE COMPANY will sue whoever owns the property to recoup the claim. I took out my knee riding near BB two summers ago and cost my insurance company over $50K. Fortunately, it happened on 2N10, which is a public road and insurance companies can't sue for accidents that happen on public roads. Good thing it didn't happen at the ski area or on one of the pirate trails.

[jackalope]

Sh!tty news indeed...But does anybody know if the new tort (sp?) reform they're talking about in congress would have any affect on cases like this?? In otherwords, limit the amount of damages awarded so that *perhaps*, insurance rates wouldn't be out the roof? All this news makes me worried about the venues in the southeast, as they don't make hardly any money (compared to their west coast counterparts) in the warm months to defray much of anything in the way of lawsuits and such...Hell, I don't think many of them make a whole helluva lot in the winter... :dead:

[Tarpon]

as long as whistler dosnt follow.....

My Vancouver friends say it won't happen there. The Canadian legal system is very different. The Whistler Bike Park also makes a ton of money on the deal (i.e it's a good money makeing operation).

[meatboot]

The Canadian legal system is very different.

Not really. Medical/insurance system is different. I think I feel like DW must feel when people e-engineer.

[-dustin]

well, complain all you want about someone sueing, but:

Kun also pointed to the number of illegal trails being built on the mountain, which he said could be almost exclusively pinned on the downhill/freeride set.

"Guys were just riding everywhere in the woods," said Kun. "The Forest Service was really pissed off with what was going on and it probably wasn't long before they shut it down anyway."

A statement on the Team Big Bear Web site read, "Various methods have been used to inhibit the development and use of these trails including, signage, fencing and ticket revocation, but these attempts have proved futile."

doesn't help much, either.

[Tarpon]

Not really. Medical/insurance system is different. I think I feel like DW must feel when people e-engineer.

It is. No Constitution = No Guaranteed Rights.

If the Canadian Government decided to put all lawyers in a concentration camp, they could. I know, it's an extreme example.

[Dingus McGee]

goodbye BB and DH and RM.
lastpost.

[bizutch]

My personal take on it....The Forest Service capped what Big Bear could accomplish. They could have potentially followed Whistler's lead and developed a massive, money making bike park like Whistler's but you can't do it if you're dealing with the US Forest Service. That basicly put a glass ceiling on increasing their cash flow to offset liability. Having worked with ski resorts for several years now on this matter, let it be known that ski resorts get sued WAY, WAY, WAY more during the winter months. WAY, WAY, WAY more people eat ****, smack trees, break legs...aka Sonny Bono...on the snow than during the summer.

The big difference was that they couldn't generate the revenue to justify expanding the program and were capped by the Forest Service. Blaming it on heavy liability insurance is basicly an easy way to place blame on the faultless riders rather than just own up and say that they themselves failed at a business venture.
If they say lawsuits & illegal trails (after all, snowboarders and skiers ALWAYS stay in bounds :rolleyes: ) are to blame, they look like there was just nothing they could do to avoid shutting it down.

What they need to do is just be honest and say they couldn't find a way to turn it into a money maker.

But of course anytime the Forest Service wants to gut the woods and level tree and earth to cut in a "access road"....they wouldn't hesitate. (Sorry, Bent Creek rant).

[jackalope]

^^^
Amen Brother...

[math2014]

It is indeed sad.

What the monkey above said is true. If DH didnt make enough money that alone is the only reason to pull plugs. It is silly to accuse people on illegal trails. Anyone speaking of illegal trails is a hipocrit in my books.... and he or she should emphasise on stopping a car from running instead. I just hate pseydo-environmentalists (good spelling?)

I bet that if DH was profitable for someone or some-commision, they would allow you to go DH down their asses even...

Anyhow... end of rant

[narlus]

what really pisses me off is that the BLM lets cattle posthole through mud adn sh!t all over public land w/ no restrictions, but is so damn stingy when it comes to letting bike trails be built and maintained. admittedly my knowledge is a bit weak; what is the relation between USFS and BLM, if any?

[chillindrdude]

all you Big Bear locals should move to Jersey and check out Diablo Freeride Park!

my condolences for the loss :(

[bizutch]

oh I got the US Open circled on my '05 Calender...don't you worry! :D

[Echo]

all you Big Bear locals should move to Jersey and check out Diablo Freeride Park!

my condolences for the loss :(
Careful man, it could happen to us too.

[W4S]

My personal take on it....The Forest Service capped what Big Bear could accomplish. They could have potentially followed Whistler's lead and developed a massive, money making bike park like Whistler's but you can't do it if you're dealing with the US Forest Service.

What they need to do is just be honest and say they couldn't find a way to turn it into a money maker.

But of course anytime the Forest Service wants to gut the woods and level tree and earth to cut in a "access road"....they wouldn't hesitate. (Sorry, Bent Creek rant).

I've been riding Snow Summit for 5 years. I have never seen a sign, or a fence, or a person telling me that a trail was illegal. I've never met anybody that has had their pass revoked for riding an illegal trail. The fact that TBB says that they made efforts to curb illegal trail riding is a bold faced lie. In my opinion, TBB are lousy promoters and business people who lacked enough foresight to turn their venture into a profitable business. TBB demonstrated through years of lazy incompetence that they don't give a flyin' F about their customers or the sport that allowed them to make a living. Writing letters probably won't change anything, but it may make you feel better.

info@teambigbear.com

[Transcend]

TBB has nothing to do with the snow summit park. TBB is an event promoter. Snow Summit was incharge of facilities, along with the park service regularing land matters.

[Transcend]

It is. No Constitution = No Guaranteed Rights.

If the Canadian Government decided to put all lawyers in a concentration camp, they could. I know, it's an extreme example.

err canadian charter of rights and freedoms ring a bell?

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/

Section 9, under legal rights.

9. Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned. :rolleyes:

Just because we don't think we need to tote automatic weapons does not mean we do not have guaranteed rights.

[BMXman]

I've been riding Snow Summit for 5 years. I have never seen a sign, or a fence, or a person telling me that a trail was illegal. I've never met anybody that has had their pass revoked for riding an illegal trail. The fact that TBB says that they made efforts to curb illegal trail riding is a bold faced lie.

I second that....D

[W4S]

Snow Summit is/was charged with facilities upkeep. TBB was in charge of making decisions, the bike park was theirs to run. I did a lot of research to find out who makes the decisions. Snow Summit provided the land, TBB was charged with running it. Why do you think that TBB made the announcement? Even TBB admits that this was a liability issue, not an illegal trail issue, that's the point I'm making.

[Transcend]

Snow Summit is/was charged with facilities upkeep. TBB was in charge of making decisions, the bike park was theirs to run. I did a lot of research to find out who makes the decisions. Snow Summit provided the land, TBB was charged with running it. Why do you think that TBB made the announcement? Even TBB admits that this was a liability issue, not an illegal trail issue, that's the point I'm making.

Right, same as with teralogix and the park at diablo. BUT the decision to close was Snow Summit's. It is their shareholders who will bear the brunt either way.

[Echo]

TBB has nothing to do with the snow summit park. TBB is an event promoter. Snow Summit was incharge of facilities, along with the park service regularing land matters.
So what you are saying is you agree that the following statement made by TBB is a bold faced lie?

"Various methods have been used to inhibit the development and use of these trails including, signage, fencing and ticket revocation, but these attempts have proved futile."

[W4S]

Right, same as with teralogix and the park at diablo. BUT the decision to close was Snow Summit's. It is their shareholders who will bear the brunt either way.

Got it. It may have been Summits decision to shut down operations, but it was TBB's incompetence that ultimately led them to having to make that choice. F it all, i'm gonna start extreme bird watching, let's see them take that away from me.

[Transcend]

So what you are saying is you agree that the following statement made by TBB is a bold faced lie?

"Various methods have been used to inhibit the development and use of these trails including, signage, fencing and ticket revocation, but these attempts have proved futile."

not saying that, i have no idea either way. I only raced BB, so i never strayed off the DH course.

[-BB-]

Snow Summit is/was charged with facilities upkeep. TBB was in charge of making decisions, the bike park was theirs to run. I did a lot of research to find out who makes the decisions. Snow Summit provided the land, TBB was charged with running it. Why do you think that TBB made the announcement? Even TBB admits that this was a liability issue, not an illegal trail issue, that's the point I'm making.

Maybe some other organization can step in then...

Damn, I'm glad I have a shuttle Truck now. ;)

[dhtahoe]

I'm sure this is all a bunch a political finger pointing at it's best. I USED to deal with it at Northstar and I didn't have to deal with the USFS. It's real easy for a Ski Resort to axe a sub-contractor just to save the hide of someone in the resorts upper management from catching any heat. TRUST ME ONE THIS ONE!!!

[Zark]

So what you are saying is you agree that the following statement made by TBB is a bold faced lie?

"Various methods have been used to inhibit the development and use of these trails including, signage, fencing and ticket revocation, but these attempts have proved futile."

Yup, pretty much. i've never seen any attempt to block or sign any of those trails. Can anyone else verify their claims? It is beside the point, the illegal trail issue was only brought up as an additional verbal "bitch slap" to the DH community in So-Cal

[dhtahoe]

I do have to laugh about the statment that BB did everything they could to surpress illegal trails when they cut one for a race last year. Then 2 seconds after the race was over they were up on the mountain covering it up. Anyone else at that race... it was one of the last am cups.