Once again, celebrities should stay out of politics....

[zod]

Funny Stuff :stosh:

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnccb.htm

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc66ro.htm

[Damn True]

"I think that as Bush will, if Bush gets elected, he will put in new Superior Court judges, and these guys are not going to want to see gay pride week."
~ Cher

....lol, genius.

[Damn True]

"And the rich, corporate, horrible, horrible people who have been destructing and ruining everything this country was made on has been really unbelievably damaging to all of us spiritually, emotionally, monetarily."

~Rosie O'Donnel

"Just remember this, don't believe the media in these last nine days. Tell yourself every day when you wake up and every morning when you have a worry or a doubt or whether you believe FOXNEWS: Kerry by a landslide. Because America knows the difference between genuine and junk."
~Rosie

.....uh so, fatass, should I ignore what CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, and PBS are saying too?

STFU!

[BurlyShirley]

hahahha. "destructing"

What a fat heinous b!tch


EDIT: Holy crap. That actually is a word. But look at the definition, that makes her use of it even better.

de·struct ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-strkt, dstrkt)
n.

The intentional, usually remote-controlled destruction of a space vehicle, rocket, or missile after launching, as for defective performance or reasons of safety.

[MikeD]

This just in: Cher and Rosie are annoying!!

Thanks, Mr. Drudge, for the revelations...

[narlus]

aside from arnie and heston, who are the celebs on the right? dennis miller too, i guess. there has to be some others, aren't there? are there any big name musicians who shill for bush and cheney?

do they exist, or are they just not publicized by the leftist media?

[MikeD]

Every country musician except Steve Earle and the Dixie Chicks (who hardly qualify as country...)

MD

[bomberz1qr20]

aside from arnie and heston, who are the celebs on the right? dennis miller too, i guess. there has to be some others, aren't there? are there any big name musicians who shill for bush and cheney?

do they exist, or are they just not publicized by the leftist media?

Colin Quinn is a dedicated Bush tool, although he gets owned on his show regularly.

[narlus]

Every country musician except Steve Earle and the Dixie Chicks (who hardly qualify as country...)

MD

country musicians? i said celebrities. :D

steve earle is playing boston tomorrow...my boss gave me a bunch of cds to check out.

you think johnny cash would have voted for bush?

[Westy]

aside from arnie and heston, who are the celebs on the right? dennis miller too, i guess. there has to be some others, aren't there? are there any big name musicians who shill for bush and cheney?

do they exist, or are they just not publicized by the leftist media?

I saw some stupid bit on how one of those crappy Baldwin brothers was for Bush. I guess he was born again and said he wanted to support the candidate that was closest to god.

[MikeD]

Definitely see Steve. You'll probably hear an earful of politics, but the guy is a great musician and I even like most of his political stuff.

I didn't mention any of the country guys who wouldn't vote for Bush because they're all dead now...

[B_A_MTBIKER]

Steve Earle is some good tunage, not sure about his political stance, but some good music nonetheless.

[bomberz1qr20]

you think johnny cash would have voted for bush?

Hard to say. If he did at least he would have came up with a good reason.

[Damn True]

Curt Schilling is a Republican.

Take that Massachusets!

[Skookum]

Curt Schilling is a Republican.

Take that Massachusets!
Curt Schilling's a liar. Did you catch any of the steroid witch trial. Pretty shameful the whole deal. Nobody want's to take accountablity, all are guilty.

[stevew]

Curt Schilling's a liar. Did you catch any of the steroid witch trial. Pretty shameful the whole deal. Nobody want's to take accountablity, all are guilty.

He doesn't look like he has the physique of someone who takes steroids.

[Damn True]

Curt Schilling's a liar. Did you catch any of the steroid witch trial. Pretty shameful the whole deal. Nobody want's to take accountablity, all are guilty.

Pitchers have no need for the stuff.
I didn't hear his testimony, but if he said he didn't use it I'd believe him. Pitching is mechanics not strength.

Point is, it took a Red-stater to bring the World Series to Mass.

[Changleen]

Point is, it took a Red-stater to bring the World Series to Mass.Yup, living in a red state makes you pitch better. No doubt about it.

[Skookum]

He doesn't look like he has the physique of someone who takes steroids.


Pitchers have no need for the stuff.
I didn't hear his testimony, but if he said he didn't use it I'd believe him. Pitching is mechanics not strength.


High possibility he never took steroids, but he's covering up for others, as is everyone involved in baseball. Essentially when asked about his statement of the steroid problem he gave the comment to the committee that he overstated the severity of the problem. "Oh it's not that bad."(he was quoted before stating the problem was severe and rampant in the league, he flip flopped in a big way)
My take has always been that after the strike everyone in baseball rode the steroid wave to regain the popularity ($$$) that baseball had. Owners, Players everyone held a blind eye as the the long ball, the home run record, created new fans, it was all good.
Also i wouldn't be suprised that steroids would help in recovery time for some injuries. Which was inferred by Ken Griffey Jr. years and years ago, which gives me more respect for him, since i don't believe him to have ever used. So you wouldn't necessarily have to be a home run hitting muscle bound freak per se to have cheated.
Lot of money, baseball ownership never would issue punishment, so you get the problem you have today. No negative repurcussions created a steroid free for all.
Now quickly let's divert the source of the problem. If it weren't for long ball fans thinking the home-run is awesomest achievement in the sport, this might never have been so bad, or at least so obvious (you mean to tell me seeing the guns on these ball players you really thought they weren't doping?). I only bring this up since i went to watch Ichiro break George Sisler's single season hits record last year, and there were seats still available in the stadium, and it never really captured much if any real nationwide attention.
And finally what really bugs me about the players is that like a father who's kid died of steroid use stated. The players are hiding behind the skirts of their union. i can see why they want to avoid taking the full brunt of the accusation for what i've stated before, but i really despise the lack of accountability by ANY of the players, and i truly despise them using their union as a tool to do so. Being a union member myself the whole purpose of one is to seek fair pay and a safe work environment, nothing better than to make unions seem unviable and lame than seeing proffesional sports unions in action.

[Skookum]

Point is, it took a Red-stater to bring the World Series to Mass.
Yah and the other 40 plus members of the team had nothing to do with it. :rolleyes:

[MMike]

What about Ted Nugent? He seems a little right of center.......

[I Are Baboon]

Point is, it took a Red-stater to bring the World Series to Mass.

I think I speak for most Red Sox fans when I say that I don't give a turd what political party he endorses. When he puts on the uniform, he's just a member of the Red Sox.

:dancing:

[Skookum]

What about Ted Nugent? He seems a little right of center.......
Sometimes rock stars not using, overdosing, and ultimately dying from drugs is a bad thing.

[Westy]

Pitchers have no need for the stuff.
I didn't hear his testimony, but if he said he didn't use it I'd believe him. Pitching is mechanics not strength.

Point is, it took a Red-stater to bring the World Series to Mass.

A little HGH would do wonders to help a pitcher recover quickly between games, the steroids themselves would probably help that too. I think HGH is the dirty little secret behind a lot of pro athletics that has not really come out yet.

[narlus]

Point is, it took a Red-stater to bring the World Series to Mass.

funny, i thought that the dominican republic (pedro, manny, david) was outside the US boundary.

hey DT, clear out yr PM box. i've been trying to send you a PM for weeks.

[Damn True]

High possibility he never took steroids, but he's covering up for others, as is everyone involved in baseball. Essentially when asked about his statement of the steroid problem he gave the comment to the committee that he overstated the severity of the problem. "Oh it's not that bad."(he was quoted before stating the problem was severe and rampant in the league, he flip flopped in a big way)
My take has always been that after the strike everyone in baseball rode the steroid wave to regain the popularity ($$$) that baseball had. Owners, Players everyone held a blind eye as the the long ball, the home run record, created new fans, it was all good.
Also i wouldn't be suprised that steroids would help in recovery time for some injuries. Which was inferred by Ken Griffey Jr. years and years ago, which gives me more respect for him, since i don't believe him to have ever used. So you wouldn't necessarily have to be a home run hitting muscle bound freak per se to have cheated.
Lot of money, baseball ownership never would issue punishment, so you get the problem you have today. No negative repurcussions created a steroid free for all.
Now quickly let's divert the source of the problem. If it weren't for long ball fans thinking the home-run is awesomest achievement in the sport, this might never have been so bad, or at least so obvious (you mean to tell me seeing the guns on these ball players you really thought they weren't doping?). I only bring this up since i went to watch Ichiro break George Sisler's single season hits record last year, and there were seats still available in the stadium, and it never really captured much if any real nationwide attention.
And finally what really bugs me about the players is that like a father who's kid died of steroid use stated. The players are hiding behind the skirts of their union. i can see why they want to avoid taking the full brunt of the accusation for what i've stated before, but i really despise the lack of accountability by ANY of the players, and i truly despise them using their union as a tool to do so. Being a union member myself the whole purpose of one is to seek fair pay and a safe work environment, nothing better than to make unions seem unviable and lame than seeing proffesional sports unions in action.


We are in agreeance.
And the HGH thing has some legs.

Baseball needs to crack the union.

I do agree with ex-Cub and Giant Mike Krukow though. I don't think Steriods are all that responsible for the big jump in the long ball over the last 10 years.

Ball parks are much smaller on average. Ten years ago most every park was the size of St. Louis and the Astrodome. Now it's camden yards, Pac-Bell, Minute Maid (formerly Enron/Homeron field) and Colorado (at 5200' ferchrissakes!) and keep in mind that Bonds hit nearly 1/2 of his homers in Candlestick park which is muuuuch bigger than Pac-Bell and the same park that Mays & McCovey hit theirs in.

The balls are wound mechanicaly now and are much tighter and harder (and some say smaller though I don't know about this) than they ever have been and the seams are flatter which improves the aerodynamics of the ball and reduces the pitchers ability to put wacky spin on it.

There are more teams now and the talent pool of pitchers is watered down.
The gap between large and small market teams is wider which means the big guys can have Schilling, Pedro, The Unit etc (the top 20 pitchers in the league are all on like 3 teams) which means a batter like Bonds will see a patsy more often than if there were fewer teams in smaller markets.

Physical strength is not the key to hitting homers. Arguably the strongest guy in the league is Frank Thomas, he plays in one of the smallest parks in the league and he is nowhere on the list of Home Run leaders. Hank Aaron weighed 165lbs, Griffey is no big guy either. The key is getting good contact on a 100mph fastball and it'll go out no matter who is swinging.

That said, the strength will keep a player from getting injured as easilly and will aid day-to-day recovery. Is that cheating? Probably. Is it giving fans value for their dollar by ensureing their favorite player is in the field and not on the DL? Yeah. Does that make it right? No.

[Damn True]

funny, i thought that the dominican republic (pedro, manny, david) was outside the US boundary.

hey DT, clear out yr PM box. i've been trying to send you a PM for weeks.


Hmmm, the Dom-Rep guys have been there for YEARS and never got the job done.

Schilling made the difference.

[Skookum]

Baseball needs to crack the union.

i'm not saying that, does all of this make the owners less villanous? No i think it will take a baseball insider turning evidence to crack both sides. i feel as if both sides need to share in this, all i see now is posturing by both sides to try to get the other side to take all the heat.........
Also as a sidenote how should we all feel about the Guvenator in all of this. Steroids and steroids alone are responsible for him being where he is today.....

[Westy]

Physical strength is not the key to hitting homers.

F=MA

The stronger you are the faster you can swing a bat. The faster you can swing a bat the longer you have to figure out where it is and make good contact.

I am far from a baseball expert but it seems to me that strength would make quite the difference even if it was not directly contributing to hitting the ball harder.

[Damn True]

F=MA

The stronger you are the faster you can swing a bat. The faster you can swing a bat the longer you have to figure out where it is and make good contact.

I am far from a baseball expert but it seems to me that strength would make quite the difference even if it was not directly contributing to hitting the ball harder.

Then how do you explain relatively diminutive guys like Hank Aaron, Ernie Banks, Jimmie Foxx etc.

Bat speed is a part of the equation but that comes from mechanics of unwinding the hips just like in a golf swing being mentally one step ahead of the pitcher is probably worth more.

[Westy]

Then how do you explain relatively diminutive guys like Hank Aaron, Ernie Banks, Jimmie Foxx etc.

Bat speed is a part of the equation but that comes from mechanics of unwinding the hips just like in a golf swing being mentally one step ahead of the pitcher is probably worth more.

Again nothing but speculation but it is probably 95% mental and reflexes, 3% luck and 2% strength. A competetive environment as pro ball is increasing your advantage against a pitcher .5% could mean millions.

[narlus]

Hmmm, the Dom-Rep guys have been there for YEARS and never got the job done.

Schilling made the difference.

pedro's been there for years, but ortiz really became a starter last year, no? you take away even dave roberts and there's no WS for the sox. it was definitely a team effort all the way. that said, i was lucky enough to see schilling pitch game 2 in fenway, and it was a pretty electric event.

[Damn True]

Oh, and I left out the new maple bats that are hard as rock, that helps a lot too.

Like I said, the roids arent responsible for the long ball. Its the parks, the balls and the watered down pitching.

[clancy98]

so, absolutely everything else BUT steroids?

good argument

[Damn True]

so, absolutely everything else BUT steroids?

good argument

Go to page 2 and read.

[Skookum]

Like I said, the roids arent responsible for the long ball. Its the parks, the balls and the watered down pitching.
still in denial.....
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Park/1138/photos/markmcgwire-withsosa.jpg

[I Are Baboon]

I respectively disagree with Damn True about the impact of steroids on one's hitting. Sure, mechanics and hand-eye coordination play the key roles in a batting swing, but steroids make the ball go further and faster. A hitter can sit back a fraction of a second longer on a pitch, but still have the power to get fully around on the swing. The reason you only see a few players getting "outted" is that only a handful of players have the skill base in which steroids could have such an impact on. If you take a .220/15 home run guy and give him steroids, his numbers are not going increase all that much. But when you take a guy of Bonds's or McGwire's skill level and add steroids to the equation, it's going to have a much bigger impact on his numbers. His 380 foot fly outs are now 410 foot home runs. His sharp rollers in the infield suddenly have enough speed to get past a diving fielder. And when the games are over, the steroids help them recover MUCH faster from the strain of playing, thus he is more energized the next day.

I am not saying steroids are the only reason some of these sluggers are putting up mind-boggling numbers (the lack of good pitchers, better training programs, more off-season conditioning, etc), but don't underestimate their role.

[I Are Baboon]

The Political Forum needs more sports-related threads. :)

[Damn True]

Ok, lets just say that the juice did help them hit the ball further which still dosen't explain how Aaron at 165 did it against a far better average pool of pitchers in much larger average parks.
Lets say that the juice helped Bonds hit the ball 5% further (which is the most I have ever heard estimated that it could possibly help). The wall in left at Pac-Bell (where he hit less than 20% of his homers, over 1/2 his were at the much larger Candlestick before he was supposedly juiced.) is at 335 and right is at 309. Bonds routinely hits balls in excess of 400' take 5% off of that and instead of the 20th row he puts it in the 7th.
Candlestick was 330 in left and right and 420 in the center and the winds there were absurd. Willie Mays estimates that he lost over 200 home runs in that park that would have gone out elsewhere. Yet a pre-juice Bonds hit over 1/2 of his home runs in what is called the worst hitters park in the history of the game.
Bonds hits homers because he is the best hitter ever. Sosa is a great hitter who played for the woefull Cubs for years. Why shouldn't a guy like Glavine pitch to him if he's up by 7 runs? Similar things can be said about McGuire who played for a few good teams including one WS champ, but mainly middle if not lousy A's and Card's teams. Palmiero has been with the Rangers for most of his career who traditionaly blow, and Griffey was with the Mariners for most of his homers.

[Damn True]

This is interesting and I think supports Krukow's watered down pitching argument.
Take a look at Bond's 73 run season. Look at the pitchers he hit off of. Mostly chumps.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/feats/feats0.shtml

[Damn True]

Bonds hit 176 with the Pirates playing mostly in Three Rivers which is huuuuuge!
Bonds hit 270 with the Giants from '93-99 playing mostly in Candlestick and other large parks.

The small park thing started in about 95 with Camden Yards whichis an AL park anyway. But the Giants moved to Pac-Bell in 2000. Since then Bonds has hit only 174 runs.
If the juice helps, and a smaller park helps shouldnt he be hitting MORE than he was before?

In fact he averaged 45 per year in Candlestick and 43 per year in Pac-Bell, he averaged 26 per year with the Pirates.

He was better in a worse park w/o the juice than he is now in a small park with. So how does it help?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/news/2002/07/15/bonds_log/

[Silver]

You're forgetting that he's getting older though...you'd expect to see a decline allowing for his age, wouldn't you?

[Westy]

You're forgetting that he's getting older though...you'd expect to see a decline allowing for his age, wouldn't you?

Bonds just stated that he may have to sit this year out, age or fear of getting caught with the needle?

[Changleen]

The Political Forum needs more sports-related threads. :)Nnnnnyyyyooooo! :oink:

[Damn True]

You're forgetting that he's getting older though...you'd expect to see a decline allowing for his age, wouldn't you?

Did some comparisons of data in the baseball almanac and age dosen't seem to be a huge factor up till about 40. Carlton Fisk played from '69-'93 and hit 371 career homers. 72 AFTER his 40th birthday and that was in '87.
Take into account that as we get older we become more disciplined in all things combined with the vastly improved work ethic of atheletes of today vs. even 15 years ago and it is perfectly plausible to assume that an athelete can not only maintain performance but improve. Sports medicine is more advanced, there are surguries that can correct injuries that would have before ended a career, recovery therapy has developed by leaps and bounds. Joe Montana and John Elway were among the best in the league even at 40 yrs old in a sport that puts a lot more abuse on the body.
If you practice anything for 18 years you are bound to get better at it.
It should also be considered that when Bonds was with the Pirates he was the #2 guy to Bonilla and was pretty much on his own as far as his game. At the time he had a poor relationship with his father (one of the best pure contact hitters ever). When he came to the Giants he had not only the coaching of the Giants, but his father and Mays and McCovey. With those guys around you are bound to pick up a thing or two that someone else wouldnt.

[clancy98]

damn true is on the roids. he's ragin right now! ;)